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<blockquote data-quote="jim pinto" data-source="post: 2691051" data-attributes="member: 17619"><p>excellent point.</p><p></p><p>my bias is showing. but i don't believe munchkin players have anything to offer, and by default the DM is not obligated to offer him anything in return. he can go play zelda and be the antisocial power-gamer he wants to be against his xbox and not ruin anyone's fun... and here's where the problem lies...</p><p></p><p>the DM can't be expect to:</p><p></p><p>a) write a story</p><p>b) detail NPCs, maps, locations, etc.</p><p>c) administer the game (maintain the flow, know the rules, have everyone, involved)</p><p>d) make things interesting</p><p></p><p>AND</p><p></p><p>e) put up with everyone's nonsense</p><p></p><p>somewhere people have to bend to the DM. because if they're not bending to the DM, they need to start paying him for his time.</p><p></p><p>the DM should have an equal vote about the tone and quality of the game, especially if he's bound by all these rules about how to run things for the PCs.</p><p></p><p>and a good player, understands his role in this.... and if his role IS munchkin super power gamer, he needs to realize he doesn't get to be the center of attention all night. in fact, he's lucky if he gets to shine for longer than 5 rounds of the final fight of the evening.</p><p></p><p>at this point, i should list the SEVEN types of gamers... these are, by marketing standards, the people you have to focus your product on when selling.</p><p></p><p>Power Gamer. This is the guy who knows how to make the most with the least amount of rules. He knows that a gnome barbarian is the best combo for dealing maximum damage in a round, etc. He typically purchases books with more feats, equipment, etc.</p><p></p><p>Combat Monkey. Different than than the power gamer, the combat monkey's character has one schtick that the player is particularly proud of. All of his energy goes into making the perfect chain fighter, etc. The character is effective in combat, but the main purpose of the character is to kick ass.</p><p></p><p>Escapist. He's here to kill things, loot things, and generally just play. He wants to escape the rigors of the real world. His characters are one-dimensional and provide the game with nothing, but provide the player with the joy of killing stuff. He's just happy rolling dice.</p><p></p><p>Storyteller. Typically also a DM, the storyteller is concerned with making sure everything fits together. He doesn't care about rules and generally doesn't even care if he succeeds at all his actions. </p><p></p><p>Actor. Particularly devoted to character motivation, themes, mood, and drama. The actor creates characters that come alive at the table, but generally are less effective in combat. In battles, he tries to do things that the rules do not support. DMs have a hard time juggling this sort of player.</p><p></p><p>Hanger-On. A friend of a friend. This person shows up to game because someone he knows games. He generally doesn't buy books.</p><p></p><p>Casual Gamer. This is the guy who is inconsistent in showing up. He loves making characters, trying out new systems; playing asheron's call one week, and everquest another. He's buying pattern is unreliable.</p><p></p><p>and of course, some people are combinations, but generally one trait stands out.</p><p></p><p>the key, i think, is to make sure a book covers these elements and details how the PCs will get more OUT of the game, if they can adhere to these basic principles.</p><p></p><p>and "good" isn't as relative as you may think.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jim pinto, post: 2691051, member: 17619"] excellent point. my bias is showing. but i don't believe munchkin players have anything to offer, and by default the DM is not obligated to offer him anything in return. he can go play zelda and be the antisocial power-gamer he wants to be against his xbox and not ruin anyone's fun... and here's where the problem lies... the DM can't be expect to: a) write a story b) detail NPCs, maps, locations, etc. c) administer the game (maintain the flow, know the rules, have everyone, involved) d) make things interesting AND e) put up with everyone's nonsense somewhere people have to bend to the DM. because if they're not bending to the DM, they need to start paying him for his time. the DM should have an equal vote about the tone and quality of the game, especially if he's bound by all these rules about how to run things for the PCs. and a good player, understands his role in this.... and if his role IS munchkin super power gamer, he needs to realize he doesn't get to be the center of attention all night. in fact, he's lucky if he gets to shine for longer than 5 rounds of the final fight of the evening. at this point, i should list the SEVEN types of gamers... these are, by marketing standards, the people you have to focus your product on when selling. Power Gamer. This is the guy who knows how to make the most with the least amount of rules. He knows that a gnome barbarian is the best combo for dealing maximum damage in a round, etc. He typically purchases books with more feats, equipment, etc. Combat Monkey. Different than than the power gamer, the combat monkey's character has one schtick that the player is particularly proud of. All of his energy goes into making the perfect chain fighter, etc. The character is effective in combat, but the main purpose of the character is to kick ass. Escapist. He's here to kill things, loot things, and generally just play. He wants to escape the rigors of the real world. His characters are one-dimensional and provide the game with nothing, but provide the player with the joy of killing stuff. He's just happy rolling dice. Storyteller. Typically also a DM, the storyteller is concerned with making sure everything fits together. He doesn't care about rules and generally doesn't even care if he succeeds at all his actions. Actor. Particularly devoted to character motivation, themes, mood, and drama. The actor creates characters that come alive at the table, but generally are less effective in combat. In battles, he tries to do things that the rules do not support. DMs have a hard time juggling this sort of player. Hanger-On. A friend of a friend. This person shows up to game because someone he knows games. He generally doesn't buy books. Casual Gamer. This is the guy who is inconsistent in showing up. He loves making characters, trying out new systems; playing asheron's call one week, and everquest another. He's buying pattern is unreliable. and of course, some people are combinations, but generally one trait stands out. the key, i think, is to make sure a book covers these elements and details how the PCs will get more OUT of the game, if they can adhere to these basic principles. and "good" isn't as relative as you may think. [/QUOTE]
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