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Blade Runner: The Next Million Dollar Kickstarter?
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8681425" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>The more I see of YZE games, the more I see Traveller influences...</p><p>This is the classic aging paradigm of Traveller... as you age, you gain more skills but lose attributes. In Traveller, the balance point varies widely by edition and Ref (=GM), and one's luck (as Traveller aging is randomized to various degrees).</p><p></p><p>So, to compare it, it's easier math in all the YZE games with aging than in Traveller.</p><p></p><p>If one considers the difference per die, with the attribute being used for all three relevant skills, the attribute is 3× the overall value. Since the aging step is -1 attribute level for +2 skill levels, it's almost always a losing proposition for skills alone. But the additional specialty is about the same as a skill level, so I'd say it's almost equal. Why? many of them are advantage on a skill.</p><p>on to figuring the relative value of the dice</p><p>Let's see... calculating average value per die, unpushed.</p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td>skill</td><td>Pushed</td><td>array</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>d6</td><td>0.167</td><td>0.278</td><td>0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1</td><td>1/6</td></tr><tr><td>d8</td><td>0.375</td><td>0.536</td><td>0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1</td><td>3/8</td></tr><tr><td>d10</td><td>0.6</td><td>0.840</td><td>0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1 , 1, 2</td><td>6/10</td></tr><tr><td>d12</td><td>0.833</td><td>1.111</td><td>0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1 , 1, 2, 2, 2</td><td>10/12 = 5/6</td></tr></table><p>Attribute value is at least triple that of skill, as it applies to 3 skills, but this ignores the Health and Resilience expendables pools (ie, damage tracks). Given that the chinyen is roughly a one use auto-success... maybe count that as a fraction of a die, sa, 1/10 of worst att+ worst skill?</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">d6 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1].[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]] =10/36=5/1=0.278</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">d8 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]]=36/64=18/32=9/16=0.536</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">d10 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0], 4×[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2], 4×[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]]= (24+40+20)/100=84/100=0.840</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">d12[[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],4×[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2], 4x[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1], 3×[2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]]= 40+48+72=160/144</span></p><p>but that effect is fairly minor in terms of change in relative value, tho ChinYen and Promotion Points are essentially single use autosuccesses at certain tasks, and so should be based upon a pushed roll's value.</p><p></p><p>Also, there are other aspects that are roleplay functions - reactions to the older character, the nature of contacts the GM will let your scrounge up, and character self-image/confidence/poise/dementia/despair/burnout that are best represented by experienced characters, as well, and the player's mindset for how the character is </p><p></p><p>I'd say, generally, the trade off is in not favorable if you plan on using all 12 attribute linked skills evenly, but that's also unlikely, so losing the value of a skill outside your competence... It's worth considering it. </p><p></p><p>If there's a skill you don't plan to use under the attribute you'd not raise due to the lost point, then the value is about 2.5× the value of a skill of same rating... (allowing for either health or resilience losses), and if two, it's about 1.5. FInd the difference going down on the att, and the value of 2 skill upgrades that you'd not take as a younger character.</p><p>I've done much of the math for you.... but a more general conversion analysis is dependent upon a number of concept and playstyle issues making a handy table too narrowly construed.</p><p></p><p>My gut reaction is, "Yeah, it's about right."</p><p></p><p></p><p>The big difference is that in Alien, the player knows it. In BR, only the GM knows it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8681425, member: 6779310"] The more I see of YZE games, the more I see Traveller influences... This is the classic aging paradigm of Traveller... as you age, you gain more skills but lose attributes. In Traveller, the balance point varies widely by edition and Ref (=GM), and one's luck (as Traveller aging is randomized to various degrees). So, to compare it, it's easier math in all the YZE games with aging than in Traveller. If one considers the difference per die, with the attribute being used for all three relevant skills, the attribute is 3× the overall value. Since the aging step is -1 attribute level for +2 skill levels, it's almost always a losing proposition for skills alone. But the additional specialty is about the same as a skill level, so I'd say it's almost equal. Why? many of them are advantage on a skill. on to figuring the relative value of the dice Let's see... calculating average value per die, unpushed. [TABLE] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]skill[/TD] [TD]Pushed[/TD] [TD]array[/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]d6[/TD] [TD]0.167[/TD] [TD]0.278[/TD] [TD]0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1[/TD] [TD]1/6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]d8[/TD] [TD]0.375[/TD] [TD]0.536[/TD] [TD]0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1[/TD] [TD]3/8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]d10[/TD] [TD]0.6[/TD] [TD]0.840[/TD] [TD]0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1 , 1, 2[/TD] [TD]6/10[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]d12[/TD] [TD]0.833[/TD] [TD]1.111[/TD] [TD]0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1 , 1, 2, 2, 2[/TD] [TD]10/12 = 5/6[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Attribute value is at least triple that of skill, as it applies to 3 skills, but this ignores the Health and Resilience expendables pools (ie, damage tracks). Given that the chinyen is roughly a one use auto-success... maybe count that as a fraction of a die, sa, 1/10 of worst att+ worst skill? [SIZE=1]d6 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1].[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]] =10/36=5/1=0.278 d8 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]]=36/64=18/32=9/16=0.536 d10 [[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0], 4×[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2], 4×[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1],[2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]]= (24+40+20)/100=84/100=0.840 d12[[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0],4×[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2], 4x[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1], 3×[2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2]]= 40+48+72=160/144[/SIZE] but that effect is fairly minor in terms of change in relative value, tho ChinYen and Promotion Points are essentially single use autosuccesses at certain tasks, and so should be based upon a pushed roll's value. Also, there are other aspects that are roleplay functions - reactions to the older character, the nature of contacts the GM will let your scrounge up, and character self-image/confidence/poise/dementia/despair/burnout that are best represented by experienced characters, as well, and the player's mindset for how the character is I'd say, generally, the trade off is in not favorable if you plan on using all 12 attribute linked skills evenly, but that's also unlikely, so losing the value of a skill outside your competence... It's worth considering it. If there's a skill you don't plan to use under the attribute you'd not raise due to the lost point, then the value is about 2.5× the value of a skill of same rating... (allowing for either health or resilience losses), and if two, it's about 1.5. FInd the difference going down on the att, and the value of 2 skill upgrades that you'd not take as a younger character. I've done much of the math for you.... but a more general conversion analysis is dependent upon a number of concept and playstyle issues making a handy table too narrowly construed. My gut reaction is, "Yeah, it's about right." The big difference is that in Alien, the player knows it. In BR, only the GM knows it. [/QUOTE]
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