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Bladesinger - a criticism of its design
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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7238939" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>How do they have a 20? </p><p></p><p>Doing the math quickly.</p><p>It'd have to be a high elf with a Dexterity bonus of +2 and Intelligence of +1. With a 27 point buy you could put a 15 into Int and Dex for scores of 17 and 16 at 1st level. Then at level 4 you bump that to 18/17. Or either 19/16 or 17/18.</p><p>20 isn't possible unless you're buying ability scores higher than a 15. Which isn't in the rules/.</p><p></p><p>Even then, that character as spent 18 of their 27 points in two stats and like has 10s in three other stats and a 11 in the last. (Or, maybe, two 10s, one 12, and one 9). </p><p>That's a lot of weaknesses. The character would have a high AC but they'd never make an Athletics check or a Charisma or Wisdom saving throw. And unless the 12 is in Con, they won't have many hit points. </p><p></p><p></p><p>o.0</p><p>Umm.... <em>fly</em>, <em>invisibility</em>, and <em>polymorph</em> are all Concentration spells. You can't cast more than one of those at a time. You can be invisible or you can be hiding, but not both. And once you cast your spell you lose the other buff.</p><p></p><p>And while a Dex 20 wizard should have a decent Dexterity check, they're not a rogue. So while they may be invisible, there's even odds they'll be detected even if they spend their turn taking the Hide action. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You can do *adequate* melee damage. You're not matching the brute fighter with GWM or the sniper with sharpshooter or the rogue. </p><p>You're doing damage like the plate mail tank fighter. The bladesinger you describe is a tank, which is a fine role to fill. But it's not going to win battles on its own. And the damage dealing archer fighter or warlock or rogue is going to be super happy they're there, soaking up the hits. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Not being up all the time is a HUGE catch. 2-3 combats per short rest is an <strong><em>average</em></strong>. </p><p>Which means that a third of the time it will be those two combats, a third of the time it might just be one combat between short rests, and a third of the time it could be four combats between short rests. And while the ones that count the character will have bladesinging up, that still means two combats where they're the party's tank and have an AC of 18. Which is still decent but by no means unhittable. </p><p></p><p>And unlike a fighter, the character won't have a high pool of hit points to soak up those smaller hits. (With said 12 Con, they'd have 22 hit points. Which is the equivalent of a level 2 fighter with 16 Con... or a level 3 fighter with 10 Con.) When there is the occasional critical, which will be one in twenty attacks against the character targeted by the most attacks in the party, they won't have the hit points to soak it up without going down. And once knocked unconscious, bladesinging is down. Ditto if they get hit with <em>any </em>form of magic that stuns or paralyzes.</p><p></p><p>That's also maximum AC. They can't ever find magic armour. Or a magic shield. There's maybe a single item that can boost their AC at that point. Meanwhile, monster accuracy just keeps increasing. While nothing is going to hit reliably at level 4, at level 8 or 10 that changes. The CR 5 hill giant is going to hit 30% of the time and makes two attacks. And the CR 9 fire giant also has two attacks and hits 45% of the time. And does 28 damage on a hit, which will serious wreck the day of a bladesinger with 50 hit points at level 8.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7238939, member: 37579"] How do they have a 20? Doing the math quickly. It'd have to be a high elf with a Dexterity bonus of +2 and Intelligence of +1. With a 27 point buy you could put a 15 into Int and Dex for scores of 17 and 16 at 1st level. Then at level 4 you bump that to 18/17. Or either 19/16 or 17/18. 20 isn't possible unless you're buying ability scores higher than a 15. Which isn't in the rules/. Even then, that character as spent 18 of their 27 points in two stats and like has 10s in three other stats and a 11 in the last. (Or, maybe, two 10s, one 12, and one 9). That's a lot of weaknesses. The character would have a high AC but they'd never make an Athletics check or a Charisma or Wisdom saving throw. And unless the 12 is in Con, they won't have many hit points. o.0 Umm.... [I]fly[/I], [I]invisibility[/I], and [I]polymorph[/I] are all Concentration spells. You can't cast more than one of those at a time. You can be invisible or you can be hiding, but not both. And once you cast your spell you lose the other buff. And while a Dex 20 wizard should have a decent Dexterity check, they're not a rogue. So while they may be invisible, there's even odds they'll be detected even if they spend their turn taking the Hide action. You can do *adequate* melee damage. You're not matching the brute fighter with GWM or the sniper with sharpshooter or the rogue. You're doing damage like the plate mail tank fighter. The bladesinger you describe is a tank, which is a fine role to fill. But it's not going to win battles on its own. And the damage dealing archer fighter or warlock or rogue is going to be super happy they're there, soaking up the hits. Not being up all the time is a HUGE catch. 2-3 combats per short rest is an [B][I]average[/I][/B]. Which means that a third of the time it will be those two combats, a third of the time it might just be one combat between short rests, and a third of the time it could be four combats between short rests. And while the ones that count the character will have bladesinging up, that still means two combats where they're the party's tank and have an AC of 18. Which is still decent but by no means unhittable. And unlike a fighter, the character won't have a high pool of hit points to soak up those smaller hits. (With said 12 Con, they'd have 22 hit points. Which is the equivalent of a level 2 fighter with 16 Con... or a level 3 fighter with 10 Con.) When there is the occasional critical, which will be one in twenty attacks against the character targeted by the most attacks in the party, they won't have the hit points to soak it up without going down. And once knocked unconscious, bladesinging is down. Ditto if they get hit with [I]any [/I]form of magic that stuns or paralyzes. That's also maximum AC. They can't ever find magic armour. Or a magic shield. There's maybe a single item that can boost their AC at that point. Meanwhile, monster accuracy just keeps increasing. While nothing is going to hit reliably at level 4, at level 8 or 10 that changes. The CR 5 hill giant is going to hit 30% of the time and makes two attacks. And the CR 9 fire giant also has two attacks and hits 45% of the time. And does 28 damage on a hit, which will serious wreck the day of a bladesinger with 50 hit points at level 8. [/QUOTE]
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