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Bladesinger vs. Valor Bard vs. Bladelock
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanliss" data-source="post: 7093409" data-attributes="member: 6801219"><p>All Full casting classes with a little melee, so they should be roughly equal. Bard has a lot of support on his spell list, so he should probably be tankiest (as he is with his proficiencies). Bladesinger should probably be the lightest, since he has the most flexibility in his spell list. That leaves Blade pact as a middle ground. Let's see how they all measure up.</p><p></p><p><strong>Bonus Proficiencies:</strong> The proficiencies they get outside of their normal class, that help them be better at melee.</p><p>Valor: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons</p><p>Blade: All martial Melee weapons</p><p>Bladesinger: A single one-handed melee Martial Weapon, Light Armor</p><p></p><p><strong>Melee Bonuses:</strong> Things that actually make them better at melee, damage wise.</p><p>Valor: Extra attack (6th), Battlemagic (14th)</p><p>Blade: Extra attack (5th, Costs an invocation), +Cha to damage (12th, Costs an invocation)</p><p>Bladesinger: Extra Attack(6th), +int to damage (14th)</p><p></p><p><strong>Defense:</strong> Melee needs some damage mitigation</p><p>Valor: Only bonus is Medium armor and shields</p><p>Blade: Free mage armor (Costs invocation)</p><p>BladeSinger: Bladesong-+Int to AC, +int to Concentration checks, advantage on acrobatics (2nd), Song of Defense (10th)</p><p></p><p><strong>Spell lists:</strong> Important part of a full caster with melee, the "Full caster" part.</p><p>Bard: A lot of support and control, notably no access to <em>Shield</em> or the SCAG <em>Booming Blade. </em>However, bard has Magical secrets, so those are accessible. At 10th level... Edit: Notable though is their Healing spells, giving them increased survive-ability.</p><p>Warlock: Blasty, a lot of damage spells, Also no <em>shield</em>, but can use <em>Booming Blade</em>, and <em>Hex</em>. Also a couple of defense spells like Armor of Agathys.</p><p>Wizard: Flexible, pretty much has access to everything, including <em>Shield</em> and <em>Booming Blade</em>. Int bonus to Con saves will help keep up spells like a self <em>Haste</em> as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, Bladesinger seems to come out pretty well above the other two, IMO, with valor bard coming in second thanks to his armor and shield use. Blade comes in last, since all of his choices remove other choices he could have made with his invocations, but Blade and Bard are arguable, depending on ones goals with the character. Bard makes the better Tank, while Blade will be getting better damage. However, that is only assuming that Blade makes the Invocation choices listed above, otherwise they are stuck with a single attack, light armor (max AC of 12+dex=17), and no +cha to damage.</p><p></p><p>Anyone want to help discuss this, whether I missed anything, or what simple changes might even the playing field?</p><p>Also, I would love for a number-cruncher to run these three, maybe one set assuming feats and one without. DPR, some light optimization, that kind of stuff. Or maybe I will try out my first shot at that sort of thing in the morning, we will see.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Added the magical secrets bit to the Bard spell list, I forgot about it before.</p><p>EDITED: again, to add more things I forgot.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanliss, post: 7093409, member: 6801219"] All Full casting classes with a little melee, so they should be roughly equal. Bard has a lot of support on his spell list, so he should probably be tankiest (as he is with his proficiencies). Bladesinger should probably be the lightest, since he has the most flexibility in his spell list. That leaves Blade pact as a middle ground. Let's see how they all measure up. [B]Bonus Proficiencies:[/B] The proficiencies they get outside of their normal class, that help them be better at melee. Valor: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons Blade: All martial Melee weapons Bladesinger: A single one-handed melee Martial Weapon, Light Armor [B]Melee Bonuses:[/B] Things that actually make them better at melee, damage wise. Valor: Extra attack (6th), Battlemagic (14th) Blade: Extra attack (5th, Costs an invocation), +Cha to damage (12th, Costs an invocation) Bladesinger: Extra Attack(6th), +int to damage (14th) [B]Defense:[/B] Melee needs some damage mitigation Valor: Only bonus is Medium armor and shields Blade: Free mage armor (Costs invocation) BladeSinger: Bladesong-+Int to AC, +int to Concentration checks, advantage on acrobatics (2nd), Song of Defense (10th) [B]Spell lists:[/B] Important part of a full caster with melee, the "Full caster" part. Bard: A lot of support and control, notably no access to [I]Shield[/I] or the SCAG [I]Booming Blade. [/I]However, bard has Magical secrets, so those are accessible. At 10th level... Edit: Notable though is their Healing spells, giving them increased survive-ability. Warlock: Blasty, a lot of damage spells, Also no [I]shield[/I], but can use [I]Booming Blade[/I], and [I]Hex[/I]. Also a couple of defense spells like Armor of Agathys. Wizard: Flexible, pretty much has access to everything, including [I]Shield[/I] and [I]Booming Blade[/I]. Int bonus to Con saves will help keep up spells like a self [I]Haste[/I] as well. So, Bladesinger seems to come out pretty well above the other two, IMO, with valor bard coming in second thanks to his armor and shield use. Blade comes in last, since all of his choices remove other choices he could have made with his invocations, but Blade and Bard are arguable, depending on ones goals with the character. Bard makes the better Tank, while Blade will be getting better damage. However, that is only assuming that Blade makes the Invocation choices listed above, otherwise they are stuck with a single attack, light armor (max AC of 12+dex=17), and no +cha to damage. Anyone want to help discuss this, whether I missed anything, or what simple changes might even the playing field? Also, I would love for a number-cruncher to run these three, maybe one set assuming feats and one without. DPR, some light optimization, that kind of stuff. Or maybe I will try out my first shot at that sort of thing in the morning, we will see. EDIT: Added the magical secrets bit to the Bard spell list, I forgot about it before. EDITED: again, to add more things I forgot. [/QUOTE]
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