Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Bluffing other party members?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 227856" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>A character succeeding at a bluff vs. sense motive check is not automatically believed by PCs or NPCs. He merely sounds believable.</p><p></p><p>A character with a good bluff skill (say +30) could walk up to the royal gate in Gaunt and claim to be the king. He could even make the DC 40 check. However, the guards' reactions will not be "Wow, he's the king. Whose head do you want removed sire?" Instead, it will be, "well, he really seems to believe this. And he has some pretty good explanations for why he's a foot shorter than the king, about 50lb. heavier and the wrong skin color. But I thought the king was in the throne room. I'd better get my superior/get a cleric who can detect magic and lies/send a runner to check if the king is still in the throne room."</p><p></p><p>For PCs, the bluff/sense motive situation is even less deterministic. After all, PCs don't believe anything that their players don't want them to. An NPC who successfully bluffs a PC merely sounds believable. The PC doesn't necessarily believe them. Since most PCs know that they're not the best judges of character and honesty (ie they don't have good sense motive scores), they will probably want some kind of verification when the halfling claims to be a Llammasu polymorphed into a halfling and therefore trustworthy. Odds are they'll get a cleric to detect magic, cast zone of truth, and detect lies and then offer to dispel the polymorph with a few greater dispellings before they'll really believe it and act on that belief. All of which is reasonable for suspicious characters confronted by a convincingly presented outrageous claim.</p><p></p><p>In the situation you describe, I would suspect that any character with the Craft Wondrous item feat would know that the sorceror was lying about "amulets of natural armor can only be used by sorcerors." Any character with spellcraft would know that Detect Magic doesn't reveal that kind of info. They would also know whether the sorceror cast detect magic, identify, or analyze dweomer (the differences between the three spells are pretty obvious). Furthermore, any character who detected magic when the sorceror was in the area of effect would soon learn that the rings were indeed magical. If the sorceror lived and continued on with the party after the rest of the party discovered he'd been cheating them, I suspect that no character would ever believe him on the subject of loot again (no matter what his bluff score--Bill Clinton's a good liar and often sounds convincing, but how many of us will believe him the next time he says he didn't have sexual relations with an intern). In fact, they'll probably either pay a trusted NPC to detect magic on and identify the items or have a more trustworthy PC do it. The sorceror's word will be worthless from then on out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 227856, member: 3146"] A character succeeding at a bluff vs. sense motive check is not automatically believed by PCs or NPCs. He merely sounds believable. A character with a good bluff skill (say +30) could walk up to the royal gate in Gaunt and claim to be the king. He could even make the DC 40 check. However, the guards' reactions will not be "Wow, he's the king. Whose head do you want removed sire?" Instead, it will be, "well, he really seems to believe this. And he has some pretty good explanations for why he's a foot shorter than the king, about 50lb. heavier and the wrong skin color. But I thought the king was in the throne room. I'd better get my superior/get a cleric who can detect magic and lies/send a runner to check if the king is still in the throne room." For PCs, the bluff/sense motive situation is even less deterministic. After all, PCs don't believe anything that their players don't want them to. An NPC who successfully bluffs a PC merely sounds believable. The PC doesn't necessarily believe them. Since most PCs know that they're not the best judges of character and honesty (ie they don't have good sense motive scores), they will probably want some kind of verification when the halfling claims to be a Llammasu polymorphed into a halfling and therefore trustworthy. Odds are they'll get a cleric to detect magic, cast zone of truth, and detect lies and then offer to dispel the polymorph with a few greater dispellings before they'll really believe it and act on that belief. All of which is reasonable for suspicious characters confronted by a convincingly presented outrageous claim. In the situation you describe, I would suspect that any character with the Craft Wondrous item feat would know that the sorceror was lying about "amulets of natural armor can only be used by sorcerors." Any character with spellcraft would know that Detect Magic doesn't reveal that kind of info. They would also know whether the sorceror cast detect magic, identify, or analyze dweomer (the differences between the three spells are pretty obvious). Furthermore, any character who detected magic when the sorceror was in the area of effect would soon learn that the rings were indeed magical. If the sorceror lived and continued on with the party after the rest of the party discovered he'd been cheating them, I suspect that no character would ever believe him on the subject of loot again (no matter what his bluff score--Bill Clinton's a good liar and often sounds convincing, but how many of us will believe him the next time he says he didn't have sexual relations with an intern). In fact, they'll probably either pay a trusted NPC to detect magic on and identify the items or have a more trustworthy PC do it. The sorceror's word will be worthless from then on out. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Bluffing other party members?
Top