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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7518171" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>Personally the sub-class features for the wizard are to me some of the stronger ones and combined with the potentially larger numbers of spells - i have found in play wizards to be far better than lackluster. performance-wise they are right there and should be able to be key members of most any group.</p><p></p><p>I also think if one is seeing them as less interesting or less involved, then the concentration is the wrong direction to go.</p><p></p><p>Concentration is just a mechanical boost or fail - it provides nothing of flavor or interest. its a core restriction that applies everywhere but hey, its not flavor or interesting if it is changed.</p><p></p><p>I would not make the change you suggested at all and even from a "but what if..." i cannot see it making the class more interesting.</p><p></p><p>i do think some campaign styles might serve to work against the wizard at times - for instance their ability to do rituals can be highly underperforming in some setups and powerful in others - and that is something neither warlock nor sorcerer get by default. </p><p></p><p>Similarly, whether or not spellbooks and scrolls are found or available greatly alters their ability to acquire numbers of spells. </p><p></p><p>So, before i look ay class changes for a less-than-satisfying wizard experience, i would look at what specifics to the campaign are over-valuing other elements or under-valuing the wizard.</p><p></p><p>One very key element may be "does the world serve up interesting wizard interactives and entanglements"?</p><p></p><p>A warlock comes with the flavor/baggage/alliance = entanglements thru the pact and the patron.</p><p>A sorcerer comes with the flavor of its sorcery origin and that potentially ties it with or at least opens doors for various types of interactions.</p><p></p><p>But are you seeing in your campaign the same kinds of "opportunities" in play for your wiz? Are their wizardly guilds, wizardly orders, movements, disputes etc - something to help tie their "class abilities" to the world in a direct way?</p><p></p><p>Shouldn't a wizard-diviner specialist have interactive opportunities that are as interesting as the warlock's fey lord patron? is there not an "Acolytes of All Tomorrows" order where on occasion they interact with and bring interesting aspects to that diviner choice? is there any of the wizard sub-classes that one cannot see a half-dozen interesting ties, interactives or opportunities to show in play those as being *key* elements?</p><p></p><p>"Value" is mostly determined by "need" and "opportunity" so if one feels a "class" is lackluster not from a mechanical power standpoint, then maybe the answer is not more power in the mechanics but in providing more "value" being seen in play to the ones they have now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7518171, member: 6919838"] Personally the sub-class features for the wizard are to me some of the stronger ones and combined with the potentially larger numbers of spells - i have found in play wizards to be far better than lackluster. performance-wise they are right there and should be able to be key members of most any group. I also think if one is seeing them as less interesting or less involved, then the concentration is the wrong direction to go. Concentration is just a mechanical boost or fail - it provides nothing of flavor or interest. its a core restriction that applies everywhere but hey, its not flavor or interesting if it is changed. I would not make the change you suggested at all and even from a "but what if..." i cannot see it making the class more interesting. i do think some campaign styles might serve to work against the wizard at times - for instance their ability to do rituals can be highly underperforming in some setups and powerful in others - and that is something neither warlock nor sorcerer get by default. Similarly, whether or not spellbooks and scrolls are found or available greatly alters their ability to acquire numbers of spells. So, before i look ay class changes for a less-than-satisfying wizard experience, i would look at what specifics to the campaign are over-valuing other elements or under-valuing the wizard. One very key element may be "does the world serve up interesting wizard interactives and entanglements"? A warlock comes with the flavor/baggage/alliance = entanglements thru the pact and the patron. A sorcerer comes with the flavor of its sorcery origin and that potentially ties it with or at least opens doors for various types of interactions. But are you seeing in your campaign the same kinds of "opportunities" in play for your wiz? Are their wizardly guilds, wizardly orders, movements, disputes etc - something to help tie their "class abilities" to the world in a direct way? Shouldn't a wizard-diviner specialist have interactive opportunities that are as interesting as the warlock's fey lord patron? is there not an "Acolytes of All Tomorrows" order where on occasion they interact with and bring interesting aspects to that diviner choice? is there any of the wizard sub-classes that one cannot see a half-dozen interesting ties, interactives or opportunities to show in play those as being *key* elements? "Value" is mostly determined by "need" and "opportunity" so if one feels a "class" is lackluster not from a mechanical power standpoint, then maybe the answer is not more power in the mechanics but in providing more "value" being seen in play to the ones they have now. [/QUOTE]
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