Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Book of Vile Darkness (short review)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 5761800" data-attributes="member: 11697"><p>Make it longer and give some more examples of "vile" material versus standard sort of mundane evil, and try to do so without going as over the top as I thought the 3e BoVD did at times. This isn't always easy to do. I'm pretty much always a fan of Schwalb's work, and the little references to classic (sometimes obscure) D&D villains is the little fine details that I've come to expect from him, and I'll credit him there. My previous criticism stands, but it's something that isn't his fault, but the early 4e cosmology and campaign setting changes.</p><p></p><p>The book doesn't seem to go into evil = icky, sadomasochism is vile evil, over the top sort of gross = evil that the original BoVD did, but some of the examples (as others have said) don't strike me as particularly evil in the grand scheme of things. Stuff from the feywild and far realm as evil (these aren't exactly alignment based planes so why precisely are they providing examples of vile evil versus the Abyss or the 9 Hells?). The crypt thing as an automaton being a vile trap? Unless it's taking the living spirit of someone to power it, and making them witness their own actions as a tomb guardian in forced undeath it's pretty tame for traps. There's some of 'kinda sorta I guess this might be evil' in the 4e BovD versus the 'omg over the top to the point of being silly' evil in the 3e BoVD. Both have their drawbacks on the topic, but how actually dark can you get before getting complaints about the book?</p><p></p><p>Mind you, I'm coming off of having written a book about soul-devouring daemons for Paizo (Book of the Damned 3: Horsemen of the Apocalypse), and I'd argue that a good deal of that book covers some of the same ground as the various iterations of the BoVD do (albeit from a very focused angle). And even then it's a fine line between writing material that truly impresses upon readers the level of irredeemable evil such a creature epitomizes and not going so utterly grimdark that it's not readable, or so crazy over the top that it goes into the realm of silly and shock for the value of shock.</p><p></p><p>While the book talks about souls, I'd have gone into the 'why' part of it in more explicit terms and about what fiends and evil gods do with them, and how PCs or NPCs can use them. What value do they have, what power can they provide, and what are the consequences of actually using souls in such a capacity?</p><p></p><p>Some of the recycled artwork is a little jarring, and I'm not sure if the art budget is getting compromised (like in late stage 3.x) but some of them just stood out like the 3e MM Chaos Beast. It's partially a 4e rewriting of the topic, but a creature that was CN for multiple editions now being "vile", again it's just odd to me. But again, that's a consequence of things beyond the author's control and he has to make the best of it.</p><p></p><p>And to answer a question from before, the readability part. There just seems like a lot of white space on some pages, with straight black text on plain white background it's feels like a textbook (which is a problem I've had with a number of 4e books). It might just be perception and I've not actually done a word count on various pages (which is hard when I don't have a copy in hand from my FLGS).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shemeska, post: 5761800, member: 11697"] Make it longer and give some more examples of "vile" material versus standard sort of mundane evil, and try to do so without going as over the top as I thought the 3e BoVD did at times. This isn't always easy to do. I'm pretty much always a fan of Schwalb's work, and the little references to classic (sometimes obscure) D&D villains is the little fine details that I've come to expect from him, and I'll credit him there. My previous criticism stands, but it's something that isn't his fault, but the early 4e cosmology and campaign setting changes. The book doesn't seem to go into evil = icky, sadomasochism is vile evil, over the top sort of gross = evil that the original BoVD did, but some of the examples (as others have said) don't strike me as particularly evil in the grand scheme of things. Stuff from the feywild and far realm as evil (these aren't exactly alignment based planes so why precisely are they providing examples of vile evil versus the Abyss or the 9 Hells?). The crypt thing as an automaton being a vile trap? Unless it's taking the living spirit of someone to power it, and making them witness their own actions as a tomb guardian in forced undeath it's pretty tame for traps. There's some of 'kinda sorta I guess this might be evil' in the 4e BovD versus the 'omg over the top to the point of being silly' evil in the 3e BoVD. Both have their drawbacks on the topic, but how actually dark can you get before getting complaints about the book? Mind you, I'm coming off of having written a book about soul-devouring daemons for Paizo (Book of the Damned 3: Horsemen of the Apocalypse), and I'd argue that a good deal of that book covers some of the same ground as the various iterations of the BoVD do (albeit from a very focused angle). And even then it's a fine line between writing material that truly impresses upon readers the level of irredeemable evil such a creature epitomizes and not going so utterly grimdark that it's not readable, or so crazy over the top that it goes into the realm of silly and shock for the value of shock. While the book talks about souls, I'd have gone into the 'why' part of it in more explicit terms and about what fiends and evil gods do with them, and how PCs or NPCs can use them. What value do they have, what power can they provide, and what are the consequences of actually using souls in such a capacity? Some of the recycled artwork is a little jarring, and I'm not sure if the art budget is getting compromised (like in late stage 3.x) but some of them just stood out like the 3e MM Chaos Beast. It's partially a 4e rewriting of the topic, but a creature that was CN for multiple editions now being "vile", again it's just odd to me. But again, that's a consequence of things beyond the author's control and he has to make the best of it. And to answer a question from before, the readability part. There just seems like a lot of white space on some pages, with straight black text on plain white background it's feels like a textbook (which is a problem I've had with a number of 4e books). It might just be perception and I've not actually done a word count on various pages (which is hard when I don't have a copy in hand from my FLGS). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Book of Vile Darkness (short review)
Top