Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Boss Monsters? I Just Say No!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7758274" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>If in doubt, stick with the tried and true . . .</p><p></p><p>I agree with this - when the goal, driven by XP-for-gp mechanics, is <em>get the treasure</em>, and when the system allows a meaningful chance of evasion (eg use magic or, perhaps, thievery to increase your chance of surprise and hence evasion; or use food to slow/distract pursuers; etc), then there are other ways the game permits the players to score a win. Which will produce different fiction also.</p><p></p><p>I think there are discernible and analysable reasons for changes in the system focus of D&D over the past 30+ years, but this thread may not be the place to go over them!</p><p></p><p>I would regard myself as a fairly strong proponent for skill challenges, but there's no disputing that in 4e combat is the <em>ultimate</em> crucible for the PCs (and their players). A quick glance at a PC sheet will reveal the truth of this!</p><p></p><p>A lot of discussion about skill challenges, though, shows up aspects of <em>technique</em> rather than <em>mechanics</em> eg players who regard it as unfair for the GM to frame a scene in which PC X, who is not very good at (say) talking, has to talk to try and get what s/he wants. This seems in part driven by a conception that all non-combat activity will be resolved by single specialists ("the face", "the trap guy", etc), which itself seems to be a byproduct of past D&D design. It also seems to be driven by weak "story" conceptions - eg it seems to be widely accepted that a D&D PC who leaves all the talking to someone else is a viable and even admirable character, rather than some sort of inept cipher, which makes some sense if the fiction is conceived of as a story of largely motivationless mercenaries but isn't true even of Conan at his most primeval, let alone (say) Arthurian knights or their JRRT equivalents.</p><p></p><p>If players won't invest in outcomes other than living or dying in fights, then there's little point trying to establish decent mechanical frameworks for generating those outcomes.</p><p></p><p>This is different from my experience - except the bit about inter-player conflict: I tend to expect my RPGs to involve some degree of disagreement or even conflict among the PCs.</p><p></p><p>Managing that, especially in party-based games (eg D&D; Classic Traveller), generates responsibilities for both the players and the GM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7758274, member: 42582"] If in doubt, stick with the tried and true . . . I agree with this - when the goal, driven by XP-for-gp mechanics, is [i]get the treasure[/I], and when the system allows a meaningful chance of evasion (eg use magic or, perhaps, thievery to increase your chance of surprise and hence evasion; or use food to slow/distract pursuers; etc), then there are other ways the game permits the players to score a win. Which will produce different fiction also. I think there are discernible and analysable reasons for changes in the system focus of D&D over the past 30+ years, but this thread may not be the place to go over them! I would regard myself as a fairly strong proponent for skill challenges, but there's no disputing that in 4e combat is the [I]ultimate[/I] crucible for the PCs (and their players). A quick glance at a PC sheet will reveal the truth of this! A lot of discussion about skill challenges, though, shows up aspects of [I]technique[/I] rather than [I]mechanics[/I] eg players who regard it as unfair for the GM to frame a scene in which PC X, who is not very good at (say) talking, has to talk to try and get what s/he wants. This seems in part driven by a conception that all non-combat activity will be resolved by single specialists ("the face", "the trap guy", etc), which itself seems to be a byproduct of past D&D design. It also seems to be driven by weak "story" conceptions - eg it seems to be widely accepted that a D&D PC who leaves all the talking to someone else is a viable and even admirable character, rather than some sort of inept cipher, which makes some sense if the fiction is conceived of as a story of largely motivationless mercenaries but isn't true even of Conan at his most primeval, let alone (say) Arthurian knights or their JRRT equivalents. If players won't invest in outcomes other than living or dying in fights, then there's little point trying to establish decent mechanical frameworks for generating those outcomes. This is different from my experience - except the bit about inter-player conflict: I tend to expect my RPGs to involve some degree of disagreement or even conflict among the PCs. Managing that, especially in party-based games (eg D&D; Classic Traveller), generates responsibilities for both the players and the GM. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Boss Monsters? I Just Say No!
Top