Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Brand new DM to 5E and many concerns...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7520929" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>The logic is the numbers don't go up for the sake of just having bigger numbers. </p><p>3e and 4e both had the fighter's AC go up and up while monster accuracy went up and up to match. So the fighter was <em>still</em> getting hit just as often in a fight at level 20 as at level 1.</p><p></p><p>The disadvantage was if you wanted to, say, have the 10th level party fight a dragon with a dozen kobold servitors, you couldn't as the kobolds would be hitting with a huge penalty and couldn't contribute to the fight. You had to create some variant kobolds that were mooks for a L10 but likely had better numbers than every other kobold. A small group of level 7 or 8 kobolds that were basically super kobolds but didn't run off and become kings of their own kingdom and instead served the dragon.</p><p></p><p>This is known in the game industry as "bounded accuracy". The DCs and target numbers don't increase. </p><p>Which is very similar to AD&D 1 and 2 in regards to ability checks. The numbers didn't really change at higher levels. </p><p></p><p>At higher levels you might find a lock that has the same DC to pick as at level 1, or a secret passage that is just as hidden, or a door that is just as solid when you batter it down. The difference is that your bonuses increase so your odds of success increase. The rogue is <strong>better</strong> at picking locks and the fighter can effortlessly kick in a door. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, a wizard can potentially kill the entire party with one spell. Good thing they're targeting the enemies instead. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p><em>Burning hands</em> is a powerful spell because it's something a low level wizard can maybe do once or twice each day. It <em>should</em> change the entire flow of battle. Whereas in 1e, they might be better off using a dagger still. </p><p>5e has tried to level the power curve of wizards. In 1e they were terrible and weak at low levels and gods at high levels. Which seems fine on paper: you're overall balanced and rewarded for sticking with the character. In practice, it means the wizard player spends weeks or months not being very effective or contributing. Assuming the campaign runs long enough for them to reach high levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This complaints go hand-in-hand with the above.</p><p>Lots of years of play have shown that 19 hp monsters don't last long in combat. Maybe two or three good hits. Potentially not even a full round. Very often the low hp of creatures like ogres had to be "balanced" with high AC. Like in 3e where they have 26 hit points but a 16 AC despite being the broad side of the barn and typically portrayed as wearing rags around their junk. Missing in combat isn't fun and just makes you feel like you wasted your turn. It's much more fun to drop the AC of the ogre way down and ramp up its hit points.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7520929, member: 37579"] The logic is the numbers don't go up for the sake of just having bigger numbers. 3e and 4e both had the fighter's AC go up and up while monster accuracy went up and up to match. So the fighter was [I]still[/I] getting hit just as often in a fight at level 20 as at level 1. The disadvantage was if you wanted to, say, have the 10th level party fight a dragon with a dozen kobold servitors, you couldn't as the kobolds would be hitting with a huge penalty and couldn't contribute to the fight. You had to create some variant kobolds that were mooks for a L10 but likely had better numbers than every other kobold. A small group of level 7 or 8 kobolds that were basically super kobolds but didn't run off and become kings of their own kingdom and instead served the dragon. This is known in the game industry as "bounded accuracy". The DCs and target numbers don't increase. Which is very similar to AD&D 1 and 2 in regards to ability checks. The numbers didn't really change at higher levels. At higher levels you might find a lock that has the same DC to pick as at level 1, or a secret passage that is just as hidden, or a door that is just as solid when you batter it down. The difference is that your bonuses increase so your odds of success increase. The rogue is [B]better[/B] at picking locks and the fighter can effortlessly kick in a door. Yes, a wizard can potentially kill the entire party with one spell. Good thing they're targeting the enemies instead. ;) [I]Burning hands[/I] is a powerful spell because it's something a low level wizard can maybe do once or twice each day. It [I]should[/I] change the entire flow of battle. Whereas in 1e, they might be better off using a dagger still. 5e has tried to level the power curve of wizards. In 1e they were terrible and weak at low levels and gods at high levels. Which seems fine on paper: you're overall balanced and rewarded for sticking with the character. In practice, it means the wizard player spends weeks or months not being very effective or contributing. Assuming the campaign runs long enough for them to reach high levels. This complaints go hand-in-hand with the above. Lots of years of play have shown that 19 hp monsters don't last long in combat. Maybe two or three good hits. Potentially not even a full round. Very often the low hp of creatures like ogres had to be "balanced" with high AC. Like in 3e where they have 26 hit points but a 16 AC despite being the broad side of the barn and typically portrayed as wearing rags around their junk. Missing in combat isn't fun and just makes you feel like you wasted your turn. It's much more fun to drop the AC of the ogre way down and ramp up its hit points. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Brand new DM to 5E and many concerns...
Top