Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Broad vs Narrow Classes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8841834" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>But that wasn't really the core of the Avenger idea. Yes, there is some connection to it, as I said with Ezio. But the core 4e idea was that the Avengers were not the gods' <em>assassins</em>, but rather their <em>internal police.</em> Less CIA and more FBI: policing heresy, ending subversive infiltration, and keeping the empowered accountable.</p><p></p><p>And, as stated, making a cloth-wearing heavy weapon user who focuses on dex and has crazy high AC is basically impossible in 5e. Allowing a Zealot Barbarian to use Dex with a greatsword would come relatively close, but every time I've suggested that it's gotten a <em>hugely</em> negative reaction, so I've just accepted that the Avenger is not part of 5e's alleged big tent.</p><p></p><p></p><p>"Clearly non-combat features" are covered by:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Various baseline class features (e.g. Bards being able to infinitely multiclass, Wizards getting controls)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The broad utility and applicability of 4e skills (seriously, skills in 4e are <em>mighty</em>, at least if used as intended)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Utility powers</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Rituals</strong> (and "Martial Practices" which are basically mundane things in the same wheelhouse as rituals)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Item powers and consumables</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Boons and other forms of magical "reward" that aren't <em>treasures</em> proper</li> </ul><p>As for "fantasies that overlap," I'll need you to be more specific. E.g. the Wizard being able to do <em>everything</em> is out, because that's not good class design. But (for instance) the Wizard and Invoker <em>do</em> overlap in many ways, with the former being somewhat more reckless and scholarly, while the latter is much more party-friendly and very "Moses calling down the plagues," heavy on intuition and proselytizing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8841834, member: 6790260"] But that wasn't really the core of the Avenger idea. Yes, there is some connection to it, as I said with Ezio. But the core 4e idea was that the Avengers were not the gods' [I]assassins[/I], but rather their [I]internal police.[/I] Less CIA and more FBI: policing heresy, ending subversive infiltration, and keeping the empowered accountable. And, as stated, making a cloth-wearing heavy weapon user who focuses on dex and has crazy high AC is basically impossible in 5e. Allowing a Zealot Barbarian to use Dex with a greatsword would come relatively close, but every time I've suggested that it's gotten a [I]hugely[/I] negative reaction, so I've just accepted that the Avenger is not part of 5e's alleged big tent. "Clearly non-combat features" are covered by: [LIST] [*]Various baseline class features (e.g. Bards being able to infinitely multiclass, Wizards getting controls) [*]The broad utility and applicability of 4e skills (seriously, skills in 4e are [I]mighty[/I], at least if used as intended) [*]Utility powers [*][B]Rituals[/B] (and "Martial Practices" which are basically mundane things in the same wheelhouse as rituals) [*]Item powers and consumables [*]Boons and other forms of magical "reward" that aren't [I]treasures[/I] proper [/LIST] As for "fantasies that overlap," I'll need you to be more specific. E.g. the Wizard being able to do [I]everything[/I] is out, because that's not good class design. But (for instance) the Wizard and Invoker [I]do[/I] overlap in many ways, with the former being somewhat more reckless and scholarly, while the latter is much more party-friendly and very "Moses calling down the plagues," heavy on intuition and proselytizing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Broad vs Narrow Classes
Top