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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8842493" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>It's not just a you thing. But the issue is one of degree. My two favourite 4e strikers were the warlock and the rogue, partly because I needed to put some work in to get them to really effective. But there's a huge difference between a 4e rogue and a 3.X monk - or even a 3.X rogue in an undead heavy campaign. And in Pathfinder I really enjoyed my summoner ... until I had it figured out and properly prepared, at which point the game got too easy.</p><p></p><p>I think the basic analogy I'd give is to 4e monster roles. In 4e (most) monsters (other than lurkers, type 1 skirmishers, and controllers) tend to have a low damage condition of 25% below the baseline and a high damage condition of 25% above the baseline. For example artillery are archers and do 25% above baseline damage at range - and 25% below baseline in melee. Meanwhile brutes are normally the other way round.</p><p></p><p>What I think you want to play is either a normal monster or a type 1 skirmisher (who does 100% of damage both in range and melee with few modifiers). What I want to play is a Type 2 skirmisher who does 25% below normal damage when they aren't able to do their thing that takes thought or effort to set up and 25% above when they are (with the most obvious "thing" being Sneak Attack). </p><p></p><p>But this has bounds and I want the impact this way to not be overwhelming. If you're (pulling numbers out of thin air) at less than half the baseline or more than twice something's gone wrong. This doesn't mean zero is my ideal.</p><p></p><p>The gap should carefully be kept under control. I'm recalling my Summoner with a player who thought he was good at optimisation at the table. (Short version: we reliably lost a party member every time I couldn't make it - and the only party member we ever lost when I could was the most experienced Pathfinder player at the table). I don't think any of that was right.</p><p></p><p>Definitely agreed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8842493, member: 87792"] It's not just a you thing. But the issue is one of degree. My two favourite 4e strikers were the warlock and the rogue, partly because I needed to put some work in to get them to really effective. But there's a huge difference between a 4e rogue and a 3.X monk - or even a 3.X rogue in an undead heavy campaign. And in Pathfinder I really enjoyed my summoner ... until I had it figured out and properly prepared, at which point the game got too easy. I think the basic analogy I'd give is to 4e monster roles. In 4e (most) monsters (other than lurkers, type 1 skirmishers, and controllers) tend to have a low damage condition of 25% below the baseline and a high damage condition of 25% above the baseline. For example artillery are archers and do 25% above baseline damage at range - and 25% below baseline in melee. Meanwhile brutes are normally the other way round. What I think you want to play is either a normal monster or a type 1 skirmisher (who does 100% of damage both in range and melee with few modifiers). What I want to play is a Type 2 skirmisher who does 25% below normal damage when they aren't able to do their thing that takes thought or effort to set up and 25% above when they are (with the most obvious "thing" being Sneak Attack). But this has bounds and I want the impact this way to not be overwhelming. If you're (pulling numbers out of thin air) at less than half the baseline or more than twice something's gone wrong. This doesn't mean zero is my ideal. The gap should carefully be kept under control. I'm recalling my Summoner with a player who thought he was good at optimisation at the table. (Short version: we reliably lost a party member every time I couldn't make it - and the only party member we ever lost when I could was the most experienced Pathfinder player at the table). I don't think any of that was right. Definitely agreed. [/QUOTE]
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