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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7147396" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>That's not quite true. In AD&D and BD&D, fighters were feudal lords. </p><p></p><p>At least that was the narrative built into the mechanics as they leveled up. Other classes of the era did get followers, but not to the size and extent of the fighter who amassed an army. 3e marked a departure from that assumption, and that departure continued in 4e, and now in 5e. Nothing wrong with that – many modern players don't want to play feudal lords – but removing that bit of identity left a vacuum.</p><p></p><p>3e tried to fill that vacuum with a huge assortment of prestige classes & feats.</p><p></p><p>4e tried to partly filled that vacuum by making all fighters Those Who Defend Others.</p><p></p><p>5e tries to partly fill that vacuum with backgrounds.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that Mike Mearls is on the right track that the fighter subclasses are a good place to provide identity (identity-as-a-tool-like-other-classes NOT identity-as-a-straightjacket). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Where you see absolute truth, I see self-fulfilling prophecy. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Back when I read the AD&D2e PHB as a boy, I remember reading about figures from literature, history, and myth that the fighter class was inspired by: Hercules, Perseus, Hiawatha, Beowulf, Siegfried, Cuchulain, Little John, Tristan, and Sinbad. El Cid, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Charlemagne, Spartacus, Richard the Lionheart, and Belisarius. Many of these men (and yeah they were all men sadly) were very charismatic, they were renowned, and people followed them. Many were also masterful tacticians. And most came from cultures with a warrior tradition.</p><p></p><p>My thought-experiment for anyone subscribing to "The Fighter Fights" theory is imagine the class was named "The Warrior" – it wouldn't make sense to say "The Warrior Wars", would it? A simple name change invites us, as designers & players/DMs, to wonder what it means to be a warrior, and (hopefully) makes us ponder the nature of a warrior when it comes to game moments, and not just those involving swinging swords.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7147396, member: 20323"] That's not quite true. In AD&D and BD&D, fighters were feudal lords. At least that was the narrative built into the mechanics as they leveled up. Other classes of the era did get followers, but not to the size and extent of the fighter who amassed an army. 3e marked a departure from that assumption, and that departure continued in 4e, and now in 5e. Nothing wrong with that – many modern players don't want to play feudal lords – but removing that bit of identity left a vacuum. 3e tried to fill that vacuum with a huge assortment of prestige classes & feats. 4e tried to partly filled that vacuum by making all fighters Those Who Defend Others. 5e tries to partly fill that vacuum with backgrounds. I agree that Mike Mearls is on the right track that the fighter subclasses are a good place to provide identity (identity-as-a-tool-like-other-classes NOT identity-as-a-straightjacket). Where you see absolute truth, I see self-fulfilling prophecy. ;) Back when I read the AD&D2e PHB as a boy, I remember reading about figures from literature, history, and myth that the fighter class was inspired by: Hercules, Perseus, Hiawatha, Beowulf, Siegfried, Cuchulain, Little John, Tristan, and Sinbad. El Cid, Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Charlemagne, Spartacus, Richard the Lionheart, and Belisarius. Many of these men (and yeah they were all men sadly) were very charismatic, they were renowned, and people followed them. Many were also masterful tacticians. And most came from cultures with a warrior tradition. My thought-experiment for anyone subscribing to "The Fighter Fights" theory is imagine the class was named "The Warrior" – it wouldn't make sense to say "The Warrior Wars", would it? A simple name change invites us, as designers & players/DMs, to wonder what it means to be a warrior, and (hopefully) makes us ponder the nature of a warrior when it comes to game moments, and not just those involving swinging swords. [/QUOTE]
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