Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Building a better Fighter
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7149335" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nod. The 3e fighter class design was simple, elegant, and flexible, you could build to almost any non-supernatural character concept with it. The rest of the system was just too broken for any but a few of those 'builds' to be viable.</p><p></p><p> Really, 4e expanded the fighter to the 'Martial' Source, making the same mistake every other edition has, and probably will - breaking up non-supernatural abilities and walling them off in classes & feats, in chunks too limited to compete with the breadth of options available to casters. The 'fighter' class name went to the Defender (traditional Tank, but with actual mechanical support) fraction of that, the Ranger name to the archer/twf DPR-king (Striker) that the fighter had covered so well back in 2e (and does again in 5e), and the new Warlord name to the 'lord' or party-leader/anchor archetype that 1e name level and other editions' fluff implied but never remotely delivered on.</p><p></p><p> Backgrounds are available to fill vacuums left by (sub)class, I suppose: every character gets one, but if their class is lacking, the background can loom larger than for another character, even one with that same background. A Champion Fighter with the Noble background in an Intrigue-heavy campaign, for instance, will constantly be calling on that Background, while people may forget that the Lore Bard in the same campaign is also Nobility. </p><p></p><p> Of those, Perseus really fit the D&D fighter. He was given a bunch of magic items and a plan to murder a horrible monster, which he pulled off neatly, then used that monster's power to destroy another, and assumed a position of political power for which he was wholly un-qualified. Sinbad could have been a Rogue, or a 3.0 Aristocrat (heck, that's what he was, a privileged son of a wealthy family). Sir Gawain would be another example that D&D fighter covers OK, among the mightiest nights, and not distinguished by much else. I suppose they could've thrown in a Boadicea or Hippolyta for good measure. And the D&D "Fighter" class has consistently sucked out loud when it comes to modeling such things.</p><p></p><p>The problem I see with the 'The Fighter Fights' trope or the Fighter is best* at fighting (with weapons, and without magic) goal, is that it's treated as if that excludes being particularly good at everything else, even though most other classes can rival the fighter in the broader sense of combat (without weapons, or with magic, or with weapons & magic), while being very good to similarly best* at one or more other pillars or more specific specializations as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>* 'best' is to be construed in the sense of "you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone else is strictly better" ie 'best' = 'just as good as the next guy'</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7149335, member: 996"] Nod. The 3e fighter class design was simple, elegant, and flexible, you could build to almost any non-supernatural character concept with it. The rest of the system was just too broken for any but a few of those 'builds' to be viable. Really, 4e expanded the fighter to the 'Martial' Source, making the same mistake every other edition has, and probably will - breaking up non-supernatural abilities and walling them off in classes & feats, in chunks too limited to compete with the breadth of options available to casters. The 'fighter' class name went to the Defender (traditional Tank, but with actual mechanical support) fraction of that, the Ranger name to the archer/twf DPR-king (Striker) that the fighter had covered so well back in 2e (and does again in 5e), and the new Warlord name to the 'lord' or party-leader/anchor archetype that 1e name level and other editions' fluff implied but never remotely delivered on. Backgrounds are available to fill vacuums left by (sub)class, I suppose: every character gets one, but if their class is lacking, the background can loom larger than for another character, even one with that same background. A Champion Fighter with the Noble background in an Intrigue-heavy campaign, for instance, will constantly be calling on that Background, while people may forget that the Lore Bard in the same campaign is also Nobility. Of those, Perseus really fit the D&D fighter. He was given a bunch of magic items and a plan to murder a horrible monster, which he pulled off neatly, then used that monster's power to destroy another, and assumed a position of political power for which he was wholly un-qualified. Sinbad could have been a Rogue, or a 3.0 Aristocrat (heck, that's what he was, a privileged son of a wealthy family). Sir Gawain would be another example that D&D fighter covers OK, among the mightiest nights, and not distinguished by much else. I suppose they could've thrown in a Boadicea or Hippolyta for good measure. And the D&D "Fighter" class has consistently sucked out loud when it comes to modeling such things. The problem I see with the 'The Fighter Fights' trope or the Fighter is best* at fighting (with weapons, and without magic) goal, is that it's treated as if that excludes being particularly good at everything else, even though most other classes can rival the fighter in the broader sense of combat (without weapons, or with magic, or with weapons & magic), while being very good to similarly best* at one or more other pillars or more specific specializations as well. * 'best' is to be construed in the sense of "you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone else is strictly better" ie 'best' = 'just as good as the next guy' [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Building a better Fighter
Top