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Building a better Fighter
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7149538" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Going with standard array takes that off the table, anyway.</p><p></p><p> I agree with one of those. We have a thread going about warrior/caster imbalance, and this one is about making the fighter /better/, so IDK about that consensus. the fighter has always been decidedly popular, even when it was Tier 5 and the subject of constant Fighter SUX threads, because, IMHO, of the heroic archetypes that it maps to, rather than it's effectiveness or mechanics. </p><p>But, for it's primary mandates - 'best* at fighting,' 'simple,' and 'evoke the classic game,' the fighter is certainly at least adequate. </p><p></p><p> I didn't care for playing fighters back in the day for that reason. 3.0 and 4e helped, sorta.</p><p></p><p> I think "The Fighter Fights" is used more narrowly than it need be. 'Fights' is not only taken as combat-only, but as combat, with weapons, and without magic. </p><p></p><p>But, in English, at least, 'Fight' has broader meanings, not to mention metaphorical ones and connotations.</p><p></p><p>Right now, the Fighter 'Fights' in the sense of Beats You Repeatedly with a Stick, and in the sense of high STR & CON (and proficiency in those saves) and high (but not highest, tied with the pally for 2nd-highest, in fact) HD. He cannot, though, 'fight city hall,' or 'fight' a Mindflayer's mental domination, or any other metaphorical fighting or crusading. Not unless you count hitting city hall with a stick.</p><p></p><p></p><p> Fair enough. I'd note that while the fighter got to become a fuedal 'Lord' in some eds, he didn't really get abilities to back it up - mainly for want of the system modeling such abilities, at all, but still...</p><p></p><p> The answer to the last question is, for the EK, "he doesn't, he uses magic like veryone else." <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>However, I think those first two question map neatly to the other two PH sub-classes, or rather, can be, if we /really/ stretch a point:</p><p></p><p>The Champion fights <em>harder</em>, because (based solely on the name) he's championing something (a person, class of persons, cause, belief, or even just his personal honor & glory).</p><p></p><p>The BM fights <em>better</em>, because he uses superior techniques that others don't have the training/talent/dedication to master.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think steeldragons idea of a social/'settled'-exploration advantage for the fighter makes a lot of sense in this context. Fighting is not like wielding magic, it's a natural skill, so mastery of it can well bring respect without the fear/superstition that might come with wielding magical power, likewise, dedication and courage. </p><p></p><p>...of course, some fighters could just be big bullies, in which case the tenor of the bonus changes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7149538, member: 996"] Going with standard array takes that off the table, anyway. I agree with one of those. We have a thread going about warrior/caster imbalance, and this one is about making the fighter /better/, so IDK about that consensus. the fighter has always been decidedly popular, even when it was Tier 5 and the subject of constant Fighter SUX threads, because, IMHO, of the heroic archetypes that it maps to, rather than it's effectiveness or mechanics. But, for it's primary mandates - 'best* at fighting,' 'simple,' and 'evoke the classic game,' the fighter is certainly at least adequate. I didn't care for playing fighters back in the day for that reason. 3.0 and 4e helped, sorta. I think "The Fighter Fights" is used more narrowly than it need be. 'Fights' is not only taken as combat-only, but as combat, with weapons, and without magic. But, in English, at least, 'Fight' has broader meanings, not to mention metaphorical ones and connotations. Right now, the Fighter 'Fights' in the sense of Beats You Repeatedly with a Stick, and in the sense of high STR & CON (and proficiency in those saves) and high (but not highest, tied with the pally for 2nd-highest, in fact) HD. He cannot, though, 'fight city hall,' or 'fight' a Mindflayer's mental domination, or any other metaphorical fighting or crusading. Not unless you count hitting city hall with a stick. Fair enough. I'd note that while the fighter got to become a fuedal 'Lord' in some eds, he didn't really get abilities to back it up - mainly for want of the system modeling such abilities, at all, but still... The answer to the last question is, for the EK, "he doesn't, he uses magic like veryone else." ;) However, I think those first two question map neatly to the other two PH sub-classes, or rather, can be, if we /really/ stretch a point: The Champion fights [i]harder[/i], because (based solely on the name) he's championing something (a person, class of persons, cause, belief, or even just his personal honor & glory). The BM fights [i]better[/i], because he uses superior techniques that others don't have the training/talent/dedication to master. I think steeldragons idea of a social/'settled'-exploration advantage for the fighter makes a lot of sense in this context. Fighting is not like wielding magic, it's a natural skill, so mastery of it can well bring respect without the fear/superstition that might come with wielding magical power, likewise, dedication and courage. ...of course, some fighters could just be big bullies, in which case the tenor of the bonus changes. [/QUOTE]
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