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Building a better Rogue
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7192671" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Not sure what you're trying to say here. "That kind of problems takes care of itself" can be read as incredibly dismissive of party dynamics in general - as if you're Darwin and any not sufficiently optimized character is expected to die off and therefore deserves to do so.</p><p></p><p>Glass cannons are valuable since they add a party dynamic that isn't there if every party member is self-sufficient. Traditionally D&D has been content to put mostly casters in that role. And, to return to the subject, the game has made sure the "investment" has been worth it. </p><p></p><p>Protecting a squishe that one day will grow up to cast Wish, is what it boils down to.</p><p></p><p>A melee rogue will never reach those heights. So why "waste" resources on keeping him alive?</p><p></p><p>Part of the reason is "because it's fun; because Jim wants to play a backstabber and we support that", but that only goes so far. </p><p></p><p>In 5E the sad truth is that everybody is better off by telling Jim to put away the daggers and draw your bow instead. You can still do pretty much everything you could do before; your hide'n'sneak game becomes much easier, and our job of protecting you becomes much easier too.</p><p></p><p>Even if Jim did get a noticeable damage boost by sticking to his guns (his daggers, actually), it might still not be worth it. After all, if Sue is playing a Wizard, we need to protect her first. A party's collective protective powers in 5E aren't that great after all, unless you devote specific players to creating "bodyguard" fighters (which is far from certain). The party wizard might not want to spend her only Concentration slot on allies. And so on. To make that a more palatable choice, the defensive buff you do agree to place on the Rogue must mean the protection of a truly valuable asset, and "top damage" is one of the few I can come up with.</p><p></p><p>All of this suggests that if a melee rogue got a HUGE (not yuge) damage boost, all the factors might converge to actually making it worth your while. Even if you do introduce a weak link to the party, you'll at least enjoy top dog damage. And frankly, the game becomes more exciting if the PCs aren't so damn superior all the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7192671, member: 12731"] Not sure what you're trying to say here. "That kind of problems takes care of itself" can be read as incredibly dismissive of party dynamics in general - as if you're Darwin and any not sufficiently optimized character is expected to die off and therefore deserves to do so. Glass cannons are valuable since they add a party dynamic that isn't there if every party member is self-sufficient. Traditionally D&D has been content to put mostly casters in that role. And, to return to the subject, the game has made sure the "investment" has been worth it. Protecting a squishe that one day will grow up to cast Wish, is what it boils down to. A melee rogue will never reach those heights. So why "waste" resources on keeping him alive? Part of the reason is "because it's fun; because Jim wants to play a backstabber and we support that", but that only goes so far. In 5E the sad truth is that everybody is better off by telling Jim to put away the daggers and draw your bow instead. You can still do pretty much everything you could do before; your hide'n'sneak game becomes much easier, and our job of protecting you becomes much easier too. Even if Jim did get a noticeable damage boost by sticking to his guns (his daggers, actually), it might still not be worth it. After all, if Sue is playing a Wizard, we need to protect her first. A party's collective protective powers in 5E aren't that great after all, unless you devote specific players to creating "bodyguard" fighters (which is far from certain). The party wizard might not want to spend her only Concentration slot on allies. And so on. To make that a more palatable choice, the defensive buff you do agree to place on the Rogue must mean the protection of a truly valuable asset, and "top damage" is one of the few I can come up with. All of this suggests that if a melee rogue got a HUGE (not yuge) damage boost, all the factors might converge to actually making it worth your while. Even if you do introduce a weak link to the party, you'll at least enjoy top dog damage. And frankly, the game becomes more exciting if the PCs aren't so damn superior all the time. [/QUOTE]
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