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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7192898" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>I disagree. Furthermore, even if I have different goals for my game, it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy looking at alternatives or contributing to others. The fact that I don't have an issue with rogues at all doesn't mean that I'm not interested in looking at why others do, and seeing if I can come up with solutions that work for them. And quite often find that I will use them, or some variation of them.</p><p></p><p>For example, for the third time now:</p><p></p><p>Since I'm not the optimizer type, would anybody care to do the math if you eliminated bows and crossbows from sneak attack, and assumed that a rogue will get to make an opportunity attack every other round? Does that move things in the right direction?</p><p></p><p>What if we make it so a rogue gains an opportunity attack when somebody is knocked prone, grappled or restrained? Not when they are suffering the conditions, but the point where the condition is applied. How would that affect things?</p><p></p><p>I think that this addresses both concerns you have raised directly:</p><p></p><p>1) Removing bow and crossbow from sneak attack reduces the effectiveness of ranged weapons in relation to the rogue (and something I agree with, even though I also believe that in general, ranged attacks are better, I just don't think they should gain the benefit of a sneak attack).</p><p></p><p>2) Providing opportunity attacks for the rogue at least every other round increases the DPR of the rogue, and improves melee effectiveness, since you can't make an opportunity attack with a ranged weapon.</p><p></p><p>Also, is the idea of granting opportunity attacks to a rogue when certain conditions are imposed overpowered?</p><p></p><p>If you're going to choose to not engage with my suggestions, then I can't help that. Hopefully somebody else will, because I'm interested, and I don't know how to do the calculations myself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7192898, member: 6778044"] I disagree. Furthermore, even if I have different goals for my game, it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy looking at alternatives or contributing to others. The fact that I don't have an issue with rogues at all doesn't mean that I'm not interested in looking at why others do, and seeing if I can come up with solutions that work for them. And quite often find that I will use them, or some variation of them. For example, for the third time now: Since I'm not the optimizer type, would anybody care to do the math if you eliminated bows and crossbows from sneak attack, and assumed that a rogue will get to make an opportunity attack every other round? Does that move things in the right direction? What if we make it so a rogue gains an opportunity attack when somebody is knocked prone, grappled or restrained? Not when they are suffering the conditions, but the point where the condition is applied. How would that affect things? I think that this addresses both concerns you have raised directly: 1) Removing bow and crossbow from sneak attack reduces the effectiveness of ranged weapons in relation to the rogue (and something I agree with, even though I also believe that in general, ranged attacks are better, I just don't think they should gain the benefit of a sneak attack). 2) Providing opportunity attacks for the rogue at least every other round increases the DPR of the rogue, and improves melee effectiveness, since you can't make an opportunity attack with a ranged weapon. Also, is the idea of granting opportunity attacks to a rogue when certain conditions are imposed overpowered? If you're going to choose to not engage with my suggestions, then I can't help that. Hopefully somebody else will, because I'm interested, and I don't know how to do the calculations myself. [/QUOTE]
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