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Burn Them All!: Witches, Heretics, and Rebels!
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3577901" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>That is a perfectly good explanation for <em>why</em> he was executed. But neither sedition nor treachery was what he was charged with. There are very good reasons for that. For one, while he was almost certainly a supporter of the junta that temporarily overthrew Athenian democracy, the supporters of the junta had been granted amnesty. For another, the charge of sedition or treason would have been alot harder to prove to the Athenians, both because of Socrates record of service and because he'd never really said and didn't believe anything that was clearly in opposition to Athens.</p><p></p><p>I'm perfectly willing to concede that the charge of heresy is often merely a convienent cover for political or economic issues, but nonetheless, when a charge of heresy is made it is as you say "sedition <> heresy". </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But again, while this is all generally true, it doesn't have much to do with the trial of Socrates. Socrates was not put on trial for refusing to participate in civic rituals or refusing to offer sacrifices for the very good reason that Socrates appears to have continued to participate in these rites. If Socrates had been known for his failure to venerate the gods publicly or communally, then this evidence would have certainly been brought up at his trial. What Socrates got tried for was 'corrupting the youth', and among the crimes which this covered was teaching that the orthodox myths about the Greek gods were wrong. What the trial of Socrates was about was not that he failed to worship the gods, but rather that his conception of the gods was very different than the orthodox one. The charges against Socrates were very much about what Socrates believed, and not what he did, and the trial reflects this. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it is very clear from the dialogues that many of Socrates most vehemenent opponents are very much concerned with Socrates beliefs about the gods. And I don't think that it follows that the fact that the Academy continued to be Socratic proves that the trial wasn't about what Socrates believed. First of all, because I fully concede that the stated crimes in the trial and the actual underlying reason he ran afoul of the law might be different (for another example, see the trial of Joan of Arc). And secondly, because I would guess that the real reason the whole Academy wasn't gone after was political expediency. The Academy wasn't banned from teaching Socratic thought for the same reason than the Democrats didn't try to go after the leaders of the anti-Democratic junta. Athens was simply politically too fragile, and an attempt to go after any large political block wholesale would have risked civil war. Socrates was executed because he persisted in being a very public embarassment to the current political leaders and because he was popular in the wrong circles, but the charge he was tried for ('corrupting the youth' and 'teaching foreign gods') was very much heresy in as many words.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3577901, member: 4937"] That is a perfectly good explanation for [I]why[/I] he was executed. But neither sedition nor treachery was what he was charged with. There are very good reasons for that. For one, while he was almost certainly a supporter of the junta that temporarily overthrew Athenian democracy, the supporters of the junta had been granted amnesty. For another, the charge of sedition or treason would have been alot harder to prove to the Athenians, both because of Socrates record of service and because he'd never really said and didn't believe anything that was clearly in opposition to Athens. I'm perfectly willing to concede that the charge of heresy is often merely a convienent cover for political or economic issues, but nonetheless, when a charge of heresy is made it is as you say "sedition <> heresy". But again, while this is all generally true, it doesn't have much to do with the trial of Socrates. Socrates was not put on trial for refusing to participate in civic rituals or refusing to offer sacrifices for the very good reason that Socrates appears to have continued to participate in these rites. If Socrates had been known for his failure to venerate the gods publicly or communally, then this evidence would have certainly been brought up at his trial. What Socrates got tried for was 'corrupting the youth', and among the crimes which this covered was teaching that the orthodox myths about the Greek gods were wrong. What the trial of Socrates was about was not that he failed to worship the gods, but rather that his conception of the gods was very different than the orthodox one. The charges against Socrates were very much about what Socrates believed, and not what he did, and the trial reflects this. I think it is very clear from the dialogues that many of Socrates most vehemenent opponents are very much concerned with Socrates beliefs about the gods. And I don't think that it follows that the fact that the Academy continued to be Socratic proves that the trial wasn't about what Socrates believed. First of all, because I fully concede that the stated crimes in the trial and the actual underlying reason he ran afoul of the law might be different (for another example, see the trial of Joan of Arc). And secondly, because I would guess that the real reason the whole Academy wasn't gone after was political expediency. The Academy wasn't banned from teaching Socratic thought for the same reason than the Democrats didn't try to go after the leaders of the anti-Democratic junta. Athens was simply politically too fragile, and an attempt to go after any large political block wholesale would have risked civil war. Socrates was executed because he persisted in being a very public embarassment to the current political leaders and because he was popular in the wrong circles, but the charge he was tried for ('corrupting the youth' and 'teaching foreign gods') was very much heresy in as many words. [/QUOTE]
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