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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7532539" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Well it’s collaborative. So there’s a discussion. I would expect it to he more like:</p><p></p><p>- Can we say there are no orcs? I’m tired of orcs.</p><p>- Oh man....I was kind of planning on playing a half-orc...</p><p>- Okay...how can we get that to work? Any ideas?</p><p></p><p>I think if we set aside the worst assumptions...that they player is simply being contrary or that the DM is simply being a tyrant...then we’re really looking at the issue. Because if a player is just a contrarian or if the DM is just a control freak, then the issue isn’t really about gnomes and settings; it’s about someone being a jerk. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well this is why I said I don’t think either approach is inherently good or bad. Either can lead to a great game or a terrible game. </p><p></p><p>I don’t think a DM determined setting really helps with continuity, to be honest. It helps with set things a certain way before they even come into play. Which can be what leads to continuity conflicts, very often. Not necessarily so, but if things are not set, then they can be established whenever they’re needed.</p><p></p><p>Having said that, I don’t have any problem with a DM creating a setting ahead of time. I’ve played in games like that, and I’ve run games like that. I’ve shifted away from it mostly due to time constraints...and what I’ve found is that a lot of the worries that led me to play that way were unfounded. This is largely why I’m suggesting that DMs be as flexible as players are expected to be when it comes to this topic.</p><p></p><p>I also am lucky in that I am playing with the same gaming group since the 2E days, and my players mostly like to contribute to te world and story of the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So the tortle didn’t ruin the vibe? I mean, they’re a pretty cartoonish race. I would expect them to be a perfect example of a race that wouldn’t be allowed by many DMs. But this would be a perfect example of what I’m advocating....the player has a desire that doesn’t seem to fit perfectly with the DM’s idea, but they make it work.</p><p></p><p>I do have a question though...what’s would be an example of an impure motive? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s cool. Like you, I engage with the game in between sessions by brainstorming and thinking about story ideas and setting elements. I just don’t write them down.</p><p></p><p>Just to ask...do you think that your effort in this regard is why you view the idea of a player wanting something contrary to what you’ve written as being difficult in some way? </p><p></p><p>I’ve found it’s harder to change things once they’re written down. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I agree with all this. I’m not saying that everything should be allowed in every game all the time. Just that when such a conflict does come up, both the player and DM need to consider changing their view. Ideally, they’d talk it out and find a suitable solution. Each of them should examine the reasons for their view and thibk about how it will actually affect the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7532539, member: 6785785"] Well it’s collaborative. So there’s a discussion. I would expect it to he more like: - Can we say there are no orcs? I’m tired of orcs. - Oh man....I was kind of planning on playing a half-orc... - Okay...how can we get that to work? Any ideas? I think if we set aside the worst assumptions...that they player is simply being contrary or that the DM is simply being a tyrant...then we’re really looking at the issue. Because if a player is just a contrarian or if the DM is just a control freak, then the issue isn’t really about gnomes and settings; it’s about someone being a jerk. Well this is why I said I don’t think either approach is inherently good or bad. Either can lead to a great game or a terrible game. I don’t think a DM determined setting really helps with continuity, to be honest. It helps with set things a certain way before they even come into play. Which can be what leads to continuity conflicts, very often. Not necessarily so, but if things are not set, then they can be established whenever they’re needed. Having said that, I don’t have any problem with a DM creating a setting ahead of time. I’ve played in games like that, and I’ve run games like that. I’ve shifted away from it mostly due to time constraints...and what I’ve found is that a lot of the worries that led me to play that way were unfounded. This is largely why I’m suggesting that DMs be as flexible as players are expected to be when it comes to this topic. I also am lucky in that I am playing with the same gaming group since the 2E days, and my players mostly like to contribute to te world and story of the game. So the tortle didn’t ruin the vibe? I mean, they’re a pretty cartoonish race. I would expect them to be a perfect example of a race that wouldn’t be allowed by many DMs. But this would be a perfect example of what I’m advocating....the player has a desire that doesn’t seem to fit perfectly with the DM’s idea, but they make it work. I do have a question though...what’s would be an example of an impure motive? That’s cool. Like you, I engage with the game in between sessions by brainstorming and thinking about story ideas and setting elements. I just don’t write them down. Just to ask...do you think that your effort in this regard is why you view the idea of a player wanting something contrary to what you’ve written as being difficult in some way? I’ve found it’s harder to change things once they’re written down. Yeah, I agree with all this. I’m not saying that everything should be allowed in every game all the time. Just that when such a conflict does come up, both the player and DM need to consider changing their view. Ideally, they’d talk it out and find a suitable solution. Each of them should examine the reasons for their view and thibk about how it will actually affect the game. [/QUOTE]
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