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Can a Critical Hit miss?
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<blockquote data-quote="Caliburn101" data-source="post: 7419156" data-attributes="member: 6802178"><p>A badly worded line which doesn't actually resolve the issue here.</p><p></p><p>p194;</p><p></p><p>"When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss,..."</p><p></p><p>So you can in fact give away your position but not be at the location you made the noise because you are moving for instance, and in that circumstance the GM is the only one who knows where the target actually is.</p><p></p><p>It is unfortunate that the rules on Stealth are effectively dispersed in the rules and use different language, and the rules difference between location and position isn't properly explained, not to mention that as per the example used, you could move 30ft, knock a vase over in the 1st 5ft of movement, and thus still be away from the position of the noise when the person attacking shoots or whatever, meaning and auto-miss.</p><p></p><p>Only the GM in this instance knows whether the attackers moved after the noise was made, and wouldn't have told the players. It isn't even clear if all of the attackers made the noise. The noise could have come from 100ft away and the attack from 50ft. No way for the characters to know.</p><p></p><p>If as a GM you rule that for instance, someone 300ft away in complete darkness in a canyon with a single noise gives away their precise location accurately enough to be shot at with only disadvantage then you can expect the sneaking player to get pretty upset at your ruling as a volley of arrows somehow reliably homes in on them. The rules of course allow for the GM to rule on it based on what they now of the movement (or not) involved. Seen it loads of times with enemies moving around within a Fog or Darkness spell even without stealth, and nobody ever challenged it as a bad ruling.</p><p></p><p>The rules are utilitarian, the rulings of a GM are situational. The RAW actually allows for those who have been heard to not be where you shoot, but also point out that the position of the noise maker is given away by a noise. The difference between the 2 is determined by what the GM knows is going on in the darkness etc., not by rules which read both ways depending on which lines you read, which is why I used the word 'precise' in my original post.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Caliburn101, post: 7419156, member: 6802178"] A badly worded line which doesn't actually resolve the issue here. p194; "When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss,..." So you can in fact give away your position but not be at the location you made the noise because you are moving for instance, and in that circumstance the GM is the only one who knows where the target actually is. It is unfortunate that the rules on Stealth are effectively dispersed in the rules and use different language, and the rules difference between location and position isn't properly explained, not to mention that as per the example used, you could move 30ft, knock a vase over in the 1st 5ft of movement, and thus still be away from the position of the noise when the person attacking shoots or whatever, meaning and auto-miss. Only the GM in this instance knows whether the attackers moved after the noise was made, and wouldn't have told the players. It isn't even clear if all of the attackers made the noise. The noise could have come from 100ft away and the attack from 50ft. No way for the characters to know. If as a GM you rule that for instance, someone 300ft away in complete darkness in a canyon with a single noise gives away their precise location accurately enough to be shot at with only disadvantage then you can expect the sneaking player to get pretty upset at your ruling as a volley of arrows somehow reliably homes in on them. The rules of course allow for the GM to rule on it based on what they now of the movement (or not) involved. Seen it loads of times with enemies moving around within a Fog or Darkness spell even without stealth, and nobody ever challenged it as a bad ruling. The rules are utilitarian, the rulings of a GM are situational. The RAW actually allows for those who have been heard to not be where you shoot, but also point out that the position of the noise maker is given away by a noise. The difference between the 2 is determined by what the GM knows is going on in the darkness etc., not by rules which read both ways depending on which lines you read, which is why I used the word 'precise' in my original post. [/QUOTE]
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