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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6357920" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I know. I already noted that he won't do it. The point was that when considering ethics, we need to consider responsibility - so the cases of "cannot" and "will not" need to be considered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I said I considered him wrong on some things, and did not specify what those things were - I was being intentionally vague. I generally don't consider such non-falsifiable things in such matters. Card is on record about some specifics of action and results within society, more specific than just "it is a Sin" - stuff that we can (and in some cases do do) actually have some sociological data and statistics on. I think he is wrong about those. </p><p></p><p>I will again, leave out specifics, as I don't want to cross the politics line. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Full control? No. But if the chain(s) of electrical and chemical reactions are fully deterministic, then consciousness and free will are illusory, and all this talk of ethics and morality is pointless - that way lies nihilism. We might as well be hunks of granite as a human being, if that is the case, for there is no moral or ethical difference between us.</p><p></p><p>If, however, some of that chain is not deterministic, then I have the potential for choice and free will. Only then does the discussion have any meaning.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6357920, member: 177"] I know. I already noted that he won't do it. The point was that when considering ethics, we need to consider responsibility - so the cases of "cannot" and "will not" need to be considered. I said I considered him wrong on some things, and did not specify what those things were - I was being intentionally vague. I generally don't consider such non-falsifiable things in such matters. Card is on record about some specifics of action and results within society, more specific than just "it is a Sin" - stuff that we can (and in some cases do do) actually have some sociological data and statistics on. I think he is wrong about those. I will again, leave out specifics, as I don't want to cross the politics line. Full control? No. But if the chain(s) of electrical and chemical reactions are fully deterministic, then consciousness and free will are illusory, and all this talk of ethics and morality is pointless - that way lies nihilism. We might as well be hunks of granite as a human being, if that is the case, for there is no moral or ethical difference between us. If, however, some of that chain is not deterministic, then I have the potential for choice and free will. Only then does the discussion have any meaning. [/QUOTE]
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