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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7535084" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Let's look at two examples: firebolt vs magic missile and shocking grasp vs burning hands. These examples were chosen because they represent similar use cases -- the first is the target at longish range, the second is for use at melee range.</p><p></p><p><strong>Case 1 - firebolt vs magic missle</strong></p><p><strong>Assumptions </strong>-- Intelligence starts at +3 and is prioritized for ASI. No feats. No class features that improve cantrips or 1st level spells. Looking at levels 1, 5,11, and 17. Average damage used. No resistances to damage apply. No advantage or disadvantage applies.</p><p></p><p><strong>Method</strong>: For this comparison, I averaged FB damage at each breakpoint as 5.5, 11, 16.5, and 22 respectively, and Magic Missile damage as 10.5. I then composed to hit bonuses for firebolt at each level as +5, +7, +9, and +11. I compared these to hits against a variety of ACs to find breakpoints for the always hit damage of 10.5 from MM to the percent effective damage of Firebolt.</p><p></p><p>I found that magic missile outperforms firebolt at all ACs for level 1, for all ACs above 7 for level 5, for all ACs above 16 for level 11, and for all ACs above 21 for level 17+</p><p></p><p><strong>Results</strong>: magic missile remains competitive with firebolt for higher ACs, but for lower ACs firebolt does exceed magic missile. At AC 15 at levle 20, firebolt improves upon magic missile damage by 7.6 points, on average.</p><p></p><p><strong>Case 2 -- shocking grasp vs burning hands</strong></p><p><strong>Assumtions </strong>-- Intelligence starts at +3 and is prioritized for ASI. No feats. No class features that improve cantrips or 1st level spells. Looking at levels 1, 5,11, and 17. Average damage used. No resistances to damage apply. No advantage or disadvantage applies. Burning hands will capture 2 enemies in it's AOE (standard AOE assumption).</p><p></p><p><strong>Method</strong>: For this comparison, I treated shocking grasp as I did firebolt above, but damages are 4.5, 9, 13.5, and 18, respective of level breaks. I used AC breakpoints of 10, 15, and 20 for comparisons. For burning hands, I computed the DC of the saving throw and compared it across a range of DEX save modifiers of +3, +6, and +12. I then computed the chance that each target failed the save, that each made the save, and that only 1 of the targets made the save and averaged damage using those chances. </p><p></p><p><strong>Results</strong>: AC10 vs DEX save +3 and burning hands wins every time. AC10 vs DEX save +6 (a strange occurrence) and burning hands wins every time. AC 10 vs DEX +12 does have shocking grasp winning at 17th level by 3 points, though. This is the only breakpoint shocking grasp wins, though - in all other cases burning hands wins.</p><p></p><p>________________________________________________________________________________</p><p></p><p><strong>Conclusion</strong>: 1st level spells in 1st level slots are <u>still competitive against even 17th level cantrips</u> if their situational utility is considered.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7535084, member: 16814"] Let's look at two examples: firebolt vs magic missile and shocking grasp vs burning hands. These examples were chosen because they represent similar use cases -- the first is the target at longish range, the second is for use at melee range. [B]Case 1 - firebolt vs magic missle[/B] [B]Assumptions [/B]-- Intelligence starts at +3 and is prioritized for ASI. No feats. No class features that improve cantrips or 1st level spells. Looking at levels 1, 5,11, and 17. Average damage used. No resistances to damage apply. No advantage or disadvantage applies. [B]Method[/B]: For this comparison, I averaged FB damage at each breakpoint as 5.5, 11, 16.5, and 22 respectively, and Magic Missile damage as 10.5. I then composed to hit bonuses for firebolt at each level as +5, +7, +9, and +11. I compared these to hits against a variety of ACs to find breakpoints for the always hit damage of 10.5 from MM to the percent effective damage of Firebolt. I found that magic missile outperforms firebolt at all ACs for level 1, for all ACs above 7 for level 5, for all ACs above 16 for level 11, and for all ACs above 21 for level 17+ [B]Results[/B]: magic missile remains competitive with firebolt for higher ACs, but for lower ACs firebolt does exceed magic missile. At AC 15 at levle 20, firebolt improves upon magic missile damage by 7.6 points, on average. [B]Case 2 -- shocking grasp vs burning hands[/B] [B]Assumtions [/B]-- Intelligence starts at +3 and is prioritized for ASI. No feats. No class features that improve cantrips or 1st level spells. Looking at levels 1, 5,11, and 17. Average damage used. No resistances to damage apply. No advantage or disadvantage applies. Burning hands will capture 2 enemies in it's AOE (standard AOE assumption). [B]Method[/B]: For this comparison, I treated shocking grasp as I did firebolt above, but damages are 4.5, 9, 13.5, and 18, respective of level breaks. I used AC breakpoints of 10, 15, and 20 for comparisons. For burning hands, I computed the DC of the saving throw and compared it across a range of DEX save modifiers of +3, +6, and +12. I then computed the chance that each target failed the save, that each made the save, and that only 1 of the targets made the save and averaged damage using those chances. [B]Results[/B]: AC10 vs DEX save +3 and burning hands wins every time. AC10 vs DEX save +6 (a strange occurrence) and burning hands wins every time. AC 10 vs DEX +12 does have shocking grasp winning at 17th level by 3 points, though. This is the only breakpoint shocking grasp wins, though - in all other cases burning hands wins. ________________________________________________________________________________ [B]Conclusion[/B]: 1st level spells in 1st level slots are [U]still competitive against even 17th level cantrips[/U] if their situational utility is considered. [/QUOTE]
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