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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7535316" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>*shrug* No skin off my teeth either way. What I see cantrips as being is, effectively, "magic user weapons"...like the equivalent of daggers, bows, throwing axes, etc. If I was going to mess with them, I might instead require that every Cantrip that a cast knows be tied to a specific item they have, and tie their use into the same 'subset rule system' that governs weapon use (e.g., they can be broken, taken away, lost, etc). I'd also allow them to be re-acquired in much the same manner as a weapon, armor or any other 'mundane item' is; go to a merchant, spend 5gp to 25gp (normal equipment prices, basically; probably take some number finagling on the DM's part to get a nice list of typical prices for these things). </p><p></p><p>Things immediately coming to mind are things like Wands, Rods, Rings, Amulets, Headbands, Bracers, Gloves, Cloaks, etc. So if a Wizard has <em>Fire Bolt</em>, maybe he has it in the form of a gaudy ring. At the "1d10" damage value, I'd go with 25gp. If that wizard gets high enough level, he has to improve it or invest in a newer, better "Tiger Ring of Hellfire" (or whatever he calls it) to get the 2d10 version (call it, 100gpv. Again, at the next damage rank of 3d10, same thing; perhaps we are looking at 500gpv. Finally for the "Ultimate Ring of Hells-Breath", 4d10, I'd go with 2,000gpv. Why the increase in cost? Level balance, really. It gives a wizard something to spend his coin on...and a wizard doesn't have to worry about replacing armor like others might. That could add up to quite a bit (well, unless the DM doesn't go in for that sort of "believability" in his game and just likes to run more simplistic 'kick in the door' or 'heroic story' type campaigns...that's cool too). That same Wizard would also have "Quill of Long Whispers" for using his Message cantrip; maybe he has to hold it to his lips when he whispers, or maybe he has to write on something with it. As it doesn't really have an 'upgrades' as the caster levels, a flat cost of, oh, call it 5gp (the quill would incorporate the copper wire material component, obviously). Low cost, but a quill is easily misplaced or destroyed.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, my point is that cantrips are really powerful/useful because a caster can be buck naked in the desert and still be able to do stuff as well as he would any other day....the same PC of a non-casting class in the same situation is often screwed (well, minus the monk I guess <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> ). By adding in a specific item with a cost to it (just like a weapon, armor, equipment, etc), it means that buck naked wizard in the desert is just as screwed as the fighter standing next to her.</p><p></p><p>PS: I just noticed I used "gp" and "gpv". I've been using these two terms for as long as I can remember gaming (so, almost 4 decades). I came up with this because...oh...hold: "gp" = "Gold Piece", as normal ; "gpv" = "Gold Piece Value"...ahem...to continue... I distinguish this so that items that are not 'normally available' (gems, jewels, jewelry, works of art, etc) have a value regardless of how much someone pays for it. So someone buying a 100gpv Pearl can use it to power a spell requiring a 100gp value pearl...but that same person buying a 50gpv pearl, but paying 100gp for it, can NOT use it for such a spell as the pearls 'intrinsic value' isn't what he paid for it. Figured I'd toss that in just in case anyone was confused by the "v" there. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>PPS: One, perhaps easier, method would be to simply start using and enforcing the Material Component aspect of spells and don't let the cop-out rule (yeah, I said it, sue me!) of "Wizards Focus or Component Pouch" be used. My game has these cop-out rules, yes, but I also have rules that distinctly encourage a caster to actually find the "proper" Material Components (basically the caster gets a bonus on his spell...increased range, minimum damage amount, etc).</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7535316, member: 45197"] Hiya! *shrug* No skin off my teeth either way. What I see cantrips as being is, effectively, "magic user weapons"...like the equivalent of daggers, bows, throwing axes, etc. If I was going to mess with them, I might instead require that every Cantrip that a cast knows be tied to a specific item they have, and tie their use into the same 'subset rule system' that governs weapon use (e.g., they can be broken, taken away, lost, etc). I'd also allow them to be re-acquired in much the same manner as a weapon, armor or any other 'mundane item' is; go to a merchant, spend 5gp to 25gp (normal equipment prices, basically; probably take some number finagling on the DM's part to get a nice list of typical prices for these things). Things immediately coming to mind are things like Wands, Rods, Rings, Amulets, Headbands, Bracers, Gloves, Cloaks, etc. So if a Wizard has [I]Fire Bolt[/I], maybe he has it in the form of a gaudy ring. At the "1d10" damage value, I'd go with 25gp. If that wizard gets high enough level, he has to improve it or invest in a newer, better "Tiger Ring of Hellfire" (or whatever he calls it) to get the 2d10 version (call it, 100gpv. Again, at the next damage rank of 3d10, same thing; perhaps we are looking at 500gpv. Finally for the "Ultimate Ring of Hells-Breath", 4d10, I'd go with 2,000gpv. Why the increase in cost? Level balance, really. It gives a wizard something to spend his coin on...and a wizard doesn't have to worry about replacing armor like others might. That could add up to quite a bit (well, unless the DM doesn't go in for that sort of "believability" in his game and just likes to run more simplistic 'kick in the door' or 'heroic story' type campaigns...that's cool too). That same Wizard would also have "Quill of Long Whispers" for using his Message cantrip; maybe he has to hold it to his lips when he whispers, or maybe he has to write on something with it. As it doesn't really have an 'upgrades' as the caster levels, a flat cost of, oh, call it 5gp (the quill would incorporate the copper wire material component, obviously). Low cost, but a quill is easily misplaced or destroyed. Anyway, my point is that cantrips are really powerful/useful because a caster can be buck naked in the desert and still be able to do stuff as well as he would any other day....the same PC of a non-casting class in the same situation is often screwed (well, minus the monk I guess :) ). By adding in a specific item with a cost to it (just like a weapon, armor, equipment, etc), it means that buck naked wizard in the desert is just as screwed as the fighter standing next to her. PS: I just noticed I used "gp" and "gpv". I've been using these two terms for as long as I can remember gaming (so, almost 4 decades). I came up with this because...oh...hold: "gp" = "Gold Piece", as normal ; "gpv" = "Gold Piece Value"...ahem...to continue... I distinguish this so that items that are not 'normally available' (gems, jewels, jewelry, works of art, etc) have a value regardless of how much someone pays for it. So someone buying a 100gpv Pearl can use it to power a spell requiring a 100gp value pearl...but that same person buying a 50gpv pearl, but paying 100gp for it, can NOT use it for such a spell as the pearls 'intrinsic value' isn't what he paid for it. Figured I'd toss that in just in case anyone was confused by the "v" there. :) PPS: One, perhaps easier, method would be to simply start using and enforcing the Material Component aspect of spells and don't let the cop-out rule (yeah, I said it, sue me!) of "Wizards Focus or Component Pouch" be used. My game has these cop-out rules, yes, but I also have rules that distinctly encourage a caster to actually find the "proper" Material Components (basically the caster gets a bonus on his spell...increased range, minimum damage amount, etc). ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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