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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7536609" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>No one has been misconstruing your points. You just claim that every time someone challenges your premises. </p><p></p><p>No one in this thread owes you the extra work of going back and giving you a play by play to prove what we all know you’ve been doing. </p><p></p><p>More importantly, versatility does matter. Part of the performance, utility, or power level, of a spell is how versatile it’s usage is. Your claim that this isn’t relevant to a discussion about the relative power level of 1st level spells vs cantrips is patently absurd. It is objectively relevant. </p><p></p><p>This is true whether we are talking about versatility in terms of the specific spells cast as a level 1 spell, or level 1 spells in level 1 slots in general, because the fact that you have X level 1 spells and Y level slots is part of the power level of those spells-in-their-slots. Magic Missile isn’t the same category of ability as Fire Bolt. Comparing them outside their context as player abilities is a waste of time. </p><p></p><p>Further, spells aren’t just situationally different, they are also numerically better. </p><p></p><p>Level 1 Guiding Bolt does more than level 17 [any cantrip]. It also has the benefit of only being used when it’s the best option in that instance, without losing literally anything by not using it. There is no such thing, *in the actual game* as a level 1 spell in a level 1 slot as a distinct feature. </p><p></p><p>The feature is a level 1 slot, with which any of a number of level 1 spells can be cast. Your position requires that you ignore that, and pretend that “Magic Missile at level 1” exists as an actual player character feature, which is a false premise. That is why versatility is relevant, no matter how hard you want to pretend that it isn’t. </p><p></p><p>And lastly, even if GB wasn’t ever better than a cantrip, that would <em>only</em> be a reason to view Guiding Bolt as a weak spell, not a valid basis for the position you’ve held in this thread. </p><p></p><p>You don’t get to just declare what arguments are and aren’t valid. That isn’t how debate works.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7536609, member: 6704184"] No one has been misconstruing your points. You just claim that every time someone challenges your premises. No one in this thread owes you the extra work of going back and giving you a play by play to prove what we all know you’ve been doing. More importantly, versatility does matter. Part of the performance, utility, or power level, of a spell is how versatile it’s usage is. Your claim that this isn’t relevant to a discussion about the relative power level of 1st level spells vs cantrips is patently absurd. It is objectively relevant. This is true whether we are talking about versatility in terms of the specific spells cast as a level 1 spell, or level 1 spells in level 1 slots in general, because the fact that you have X level 1 spells and Y level slots is part of the power level of those spells-in-their-slots. Magic Missile isn’t the same category of ability as Fire Bolt. Comparing them outside their context as player abilities is a waste of time. Further, spells aren’t just situationally different, they are also numerically better. Level 1 Guiding Bolt does more than level 17 [any cantrip]. It also has the benefit of only being used when it’s the best option in that instance, without losing literally anything by not using it. There is no such thing, *in the actual game* as a level 1 spell in a level 1 slot as a distinct feature. The feature is a level 1 slot, with which any of a number of level 1 spells can be cast. Your position requires that you ignore that, and pretend that “Magic Missile at level 1” exists as an actual player character feature, which is a false premise. That is why versatility is relevant, no matter how hard you want to pretend that it isn’t. And lastly, even if GB wasn’t ever better than a cantrip, that would [I]only[/I] be a reason to view Guiding Bolt as a weak spell, not a valid basis for the position you’ve held in this thread. You don’t get to just declare what arguments are and aren’t valid. That isn’t how debate works. [/QUOTE]
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