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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7536816" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>Seriously? I’m clearly not saying anything about upcasting in the text you quoted. </p><p></p><p></p><p> you’re aggressively missing the point, which is that it’s on you to communicate clearly. </p><p></p><p></p><p> <head desk></p><p></p><p>I have done previously. I will do so once more, but the next time you expect me to repeat myself I will simply tell you no, and move on. </p><p></p><p>Firstly, I wasn’t talking about upcasting in that post, nor have I made that part of my arguments in this thread. Feel free to ask others for that explanation, though I do agree with them. </p><p></p><p>That out of the way, the reason that the ability to cast any level 1 spell you know/have prepared in a level 1 slot is simple. As I said before, the spell isn’t a class feature. It’s a thing you can do with the class feature. The spell slot is a class feature. With it, you can cast any of several spells. A level 1 spell slot, therefor, is what must be compared to a cantrip. </p><p></p><p>The comparison is using a cantrip (an at will ability), or spending a level 1 spell slot (limited ability). The level 1 slot is strictly superior, for several reasons. I think you’ve come around to agreeing that most (possibly all) level 1 damage spells are stronger than cantrips, or at least acknowledge the sense of the arguments. So then, we are left with the versatility. Ie, the slot vs your list of cantrips. </p><p></p><p>Cantrips have, at most, 4 options. Most characters will have at least one utility cantrip, so let’s say 2-3 options for damage. 1st and 2nd level spells can easily have twice that, that do things no cantrip can do. </p><p>Even if damage were numerically identical, being able to do the right damage, with more options for how you do it (cone, AoE, no-roll), means that the level 1 slot, counting only damage dealing spells as options for that slot, is more powerful than the cantrip. </p><p></p><p>Again, this is about part of your premise being wrong. That is, the premise that the specific unique spell is the feature that is in competition with your damage cantrips.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7536816, member: 6704184"] Seriously? I’m clearly not saying anything about upcasting in the text you quoted. you’re aggressively missing the point, which is that it’s on you to communicate clearly. <head desk> I have done previously. I will do so once more, but the next time you expect me to repeat myself I will simply tell you no, and move on. Firstly, I wasn’t talking about upcasting in that post, nor have I made that part of my arguments in this thread. Feel free to ask others for that explanation, though I do agree with them. That out of the way, the reason that the ability to cast any level 1 spell you know/have prepared in a level 1 slot is simple. As I said before, the spell isn’t a class feature. It’s a thing you can do with the class feature. The spell slot is a class feature. With it, you can cast any of several spells. A level 1 spell slot, therefor, is what must be compared to a cantrip. The comparison is using a cantrip (an at will ability), or spending a level 1 spell slot (limited ability). The level 1 slot is strictly superior, for several reasons. I think you’ve come around to agreeing that most (possibly all) level 1 damage spells are stronger than cantrips, or at least acknowledge the sense of the arguments. So then, we are left with the versatility. Ie, the slot vs your list of cantrips. Cantrips have, at most, 4 options. Most characters will have at least one utility cantrip, so let’s say 2-3 options for damage. 1st and 2nd level spells can easily have twice that, that do things no cantrip can do. Even if damage were numerically identical, being able to do the right damage, with more options for how you do it (cone, AoE, no-roll), means that the level 1 slot, counting only damage dealing spells as options for that slot, is more powerful than the cantrip. Again, this is about part of your premise being wrong. That is, the premise that the specific unique spell is the feature that is in competition with your damage cantrips. [/QUOTE]
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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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