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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7537591" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>Perhaps you've assumed some additional connotation to "just tradition" that isn't intended, but it seems to me that you literally just said that it's not just tradition and then also basically said it's just tradition. </p><p></p><p>5e Clerics and Druids aren't themed wizards. I still haven't seen any explanation for the idea that they're basically wizards. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> 3e was terrible, sure. So what? The only thing I care less about than arguments purely from tradition are discussions about DnD's worst edition. (ok, a lot of the pre-ADND DnD's are even worse in many ways, but 3e managed to be simultaneously horrifyingly bland and mind-numbingly complicated, which I'd mark as the only impressive thing about it, outside of some great fluff)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What the buttholes does "pew pew spells" even refer to, here? Literally just any damage spell? So, just...if it does damage magically it's a wizard? That seems to preposterous on it's face to even vaguely take seriously, so I gotta assume you've got more than that, right? </p><p></p><p>Beyond that, your Cleric can choose the War domain, and get a second attack. Your Druid can choose Primal Savagery for scaling melee attack damage, or use wild shape. Both classes do things that no wizard can do, with a list of spells that do completely different things from a wizard. Or eachother. </p><p></p><p>Sure, both classes could use a class feature that adds some sort of benefit with weapon attacks, so they can be more workable in melee for the sake of **tradition**, but it shouldn't be the same thing that fighters and paladins and rangers get for that purpose. And I'd again point out that Druids do, even before Primal Savagery came out. Should Shillelagh get better? Sure! Let it get an upgrade where if you use a special action to attack with it, it sprouts thorns and does an extra 1d8 piercing damage. Boom! No MC/Magic Initiate cheese, Druids get to hit things with sticks real good at later levels. </p><p></p><p>Let Clerics get something similar to Improved Divine Smite around level 5, or give them a cantrip that acts like the SCAG cantrips but with radiant damage, whatever. </p><p></p><p>There is no reason to make them less magical just because back in the day they weren't full of damaging magic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7537591, member: 6704184"] Perhaps you've assumed some additional connotation to "just tradition" that isn't intended, but it seems to me that you literally just said that it's not just tradition and then also basically said it's just tradition. 5e Clerics and Druids aren't themed wizards. I still haven't seen any explanation for the idea that they're basically wizards. 3e was terrible, sure. So what? The only thing I care less about than arguments purely from tradition are discussions about DnD's worst edition. (ok, a lot of the pre-ADND DnD's are even worse in many ways, but 3e managed to be simultaneously horrifyingly bland and mind-numbingly complicated, which I'd mark as the only impressive thing about it, outside of some great fluff) What the buttholes does "pew pew spells" even refer to, here? Literally just any damage spell? So, just...if it does damage magically it's a wizard? That seems to preposterous on it's face to even vaguely take seriously, so I gotta assume you've got more than that, right? Beyond that, your Cleric can choose the War domain, and get a second attack. Your Druid can choose Primal Savagery for scaling melee attack damage, or use wild shape. Both classes do things that no wizard can do, with a list of spells that do completely different things from a wizard. Or eachother. Sure, both classes could use a class feature that adds some sort of benefit with weapon attacks, so they can be more workable in melee for the sake of **tradition**, but it shouldn't be the same thing that fighters and paladins and rangers get for that purpose. And I'd again point out that Druids do, even before Primal Savagery came out. Should Shillelagh get better? Sure! Let it get an upgrade where if you use a special action to attack with it, it sprouts thorns and does an extra 1d8 piercing damage. Boom! No MC/Magic Initiate cheese, Druids get to hit things with sticks real good at later levels. Let Clerics get something similar to Improved Divine Smite around level 5, or give them a cantrip that acts like the SCAG cantrips but with radiant damage, whatever. There is no reason to make them less magical just because back in the day they weren't full of damaging magic. [/QUOTE]
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