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Casual vs. serious gamers, DMs Groups, and stuff you'll never use in a game...
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<blockquote data-quote="Scurvy_Platypus" data-source="post: 5120313" data-attributes="member: 43283"><p>I've seen some pretty hardcore people that had zero interest in running games. And then there's me who's really casual and happy to run a game, although in the case of D&D it's not going to be strictly Rules as Written.</p><p></p><p>I don't think it has anything to do with "casual" vs "hardcore", simply because you haven't defined what those two terms are in relation to. When it comes to gamers, I see hardcore collectors, I see hardcore consumers, I see hardcore rule lawyers, I see hardcore system evangelists, I see hardcore "I'm a geek, deal with it!!" attitude, I even see hardcore people that are proud of being social misfits/outcasts.</p><p></p><p>And I @#$%@#$%@#$%@#$%@#$% hate world-building. Oh, I'm fine with grabbing a setting (like Palladium Fantasy) and running a game and making up bits as I need. But "world building" like so many GMs indulge? I loathe it. And I loathe being subjected to most GMs world-building attempts. A disgusting number of GMs are frustrated novelists and their games become an outlet for it.</p><p></p><p>Which wouldn't be so bad if they'd actually bother taking some classes in how to write and actually tried to develop some writing craft.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to smack the next GM that starts pontificating on how important "The Heroic Journey" is to rpgs and how they like to incorporate Joseph Campbell's ideas into their game. Newsflash: Starting out as a crappy level 1 character and dungeon crawling for 15 levels? That's not the Heroic Journey.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What you're describing doesn't sound "hardcore" to me, it sounds "obsessive". That's not rpgs as a hobby in my mind, that's rpgs as a way of life.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, as far as forum culture is concerned, I barely manage to rate as a casual gamer I think. One of the few things that makes me rate at all is just the fact that I post on rpg forums. But I don't care about most of the stuff online gamers seem to be obsessed with.</p><p></p><p>On the flip-side, amongst at least one of my groups, I'm hardcore. I pay attention to what happens with rpgs, I've played and run the darn things for 20 years, I don't play just D&D but *gasp* those dirty hippie games and stuff from the small press side of things as well, I've got at least a grounding in rpg theory, I've got notions about math and how playing around with different parts of a system can produce different effects in play, I've got a number of different projects I'm working on... yeah, to them I'm probably obsessed. Which is funny to me since I've got so many other non-rpg things going on.</p><p></p><p>*shrug*</p><p></p><p>I get that you're very dedicated and passionate about rpgs. To be honest? The rpg industry is pretty much dedicated to you as well. Because let's face it... it's _not_ the people like myself that are keeping the rpg industry going. See, I happen to firmly believe that rpgs as a _hobby_ can continue just fine without the current industry. Over the 10 year course of 3.x's life, you know how many books I bought from WotC? 1. The Player's Handbook, 3.5 edition.</p><p></p><p>It's all the different kinds of hardcore gamers out there that keep the current industry on its life-support. I do not require a new book to be produced every month. I do not look at an rpg and declare it to be a "dead" game if it hasn't had a new supplement churned out for it in the past 6 months, and when people declare a game "dead" I don't feel a need to get rid of the books or find a new game. I don't care about a rulebook being hardbacked, I don't require my rpgs to be equal parts rules and coffeetable art book.</p><p></p><p>I mean, I call rpgs "Playing invisible Barbie." because that's how I see it. Dudes playing dress up with War Barbie. "My war barbie has a new sword!" "Oh yeah? My war barbie has these cool new robes, AND can just fly where ever he wants anytime!"</p><p></p><p>I've been in a couple of groups that were all GMs. It was a horrible experience each time. It was like Live Action Flamewars. Every GM had their pet system, pet theories, ideas, stories, plans... everyone wanted the spotlight. "Discussions" of topics were either the Live Action Flamewars, or they were sitting around like old men going, "Yuuuup." and nodding vigorously like bobble-heads on the dashboard of an off-road Baja racer.</p><p></p><p>I say kick back, take a deep breath, and accept things as they are. Your group might not appreciate the effort you can (or do) put into something, but there's nothing stopping you from sharing it online. Plenty of folks that can see it there. And if your group is not as into rpgs as you are, at least it means you don't really have to worry about competition either; you're going to be the default one-stop-shop for rpg related stuff. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scurvy_Platypus, post: 5120313, member: 43283"] I've seen some pretty hardcore people that had zero interest in running games. And then there's me who's really casual and happy to run a game, although in the case of D&D it's not going to be strictly Rules as Written. I don't think it has anything to do with "casual" vs "hardcore", simply because you haven't defined what those two terms are in relation to. When it comes to gamers, I see hardcore collectors, I see hardcore consumers, I see hardcore rule lawyers, I see hardcore system evangelists, I see hardcore "I'm a geek, deal with it!!" attitude, I even see hardcore people that are proud of being social misfits/outcasts. And I @#$%@#$%@#$%@#$%@#$% hate world-building. Oh, I'm fine with grabbing a setting (like Palladium Fantasy) and running a game and making up bits as I need. But "world building" like so many GMs indulge? I loathe it. And I loathe being subjected to most GMs world-building attempts. A disgusting number of GMs are frustrated novelists and their games become an outlet for it. Which wouldn't be so bad if they'd actually bother taking some classes in how to write and actually tried to develop some writing craft. I'm going to smack the next GM that starts pontificating on how important "The Heroic Journey" is to rpgs and how they like to incorporate Joseph Campbell's ideas into their game. Newsflash: Starting out as a crappy level 1 character and dungeon crawling for 15 levels? That's not the Heroic Journey. What you're describing doesn't sound "hardcore" to me, it sounds "obsessive". That's not rpgs as a hobby in my mind, that's rpgs as a way of life. Well, as far as forum culture is concerned, I barely manage to rate as a casual gamer I think. One of the few things that makes me rate at all is just the fact that I post on rpg forums. But I don't care about most of the stuff online gamers seem to be obsessed with. On the flip-side, amongst at least one of my groups, I'm hardcore. I pay attention to what happens with rpgs, I've played and run the darn things for 20 years, I don't play just D&D but *gasp* those dirty hippie games and stuff from the small press side of things as well, I've got at least a grounding in rpg theory, I've got notions about math and how playing around with different parts of a system can produce different effects in play, I've got a number of different projects I'm working on... yeah, to them I'm probably obsessed. Which is funny to me since I've got so many other non-rpg things going on. *shrug* I get that you're very dedicated and passionate about rpgs. To be honest? The rpg industry is pretty much dedicated to you as well. Because let's face it... it's _not_ the people like myself that are keeping the rpg industry going. See, I happen to firmly believe that rpgs as a _hobby_ can continue just fine without the current industry. Over the 10 year course of 3.x's life, you know how many books I bought from WotC? 1. The Player's Handbook, 3.5 edition. It's all the different kinds of hardcore gamers out there that keep the current industry on its life-support. I do not require a new book to be produced every month. I do not look at an rpg and declare it to be a "dead" game if it hasn't had a new supplement churned out for it in the past 6 months, and when people declare a game "dead" I don't feel a need to get rid of the books or find a new game. I don't care about a rulebook being hardbacked, I don't require my rpgs to be equal parts rules and coffeetable art book. I mean, I call rpgs "Playing invisible Barbie." because that's how I see it. Dudes playing dress up with War Barbie. "My war barbie has a new sword!" "Oh yeah? My war barbie has these cool new robes, AND can just fly where ever he wants anytime!" I've been in a couple of groups that were all GMs. It was a horrible experience each time. It was like Live Action Flamewars. Every GM had their pet system, pet theories, ideas, stories, plans... everyone wanted the spotlight. "Discussions" of topics were either the Live Action Flamewars, or they were sitting around like old men going, "Yuuuup." and nodding vigorously like bobble-heads on the dashboard of an off-road Baja racer. I say kick back, take a deep breath, and accept things as they are. Your group might not appreciate the effort you can (or do) put into something, but there's nothing stopping you from sharing it online. Plenty of folks that can see it there. And if your group is not as into rpgs as you are, at least it means you don't really have to worry about competition either; you're going to be the default one-stop-shop for rpg related stuff. :) [/QUOTE]
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