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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
changing 4e rules so that the game doesn't need miniatures
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<blockquote data-quote="timbannock" data-source="post: 4595811" data-attributes="member: 17913"><p>People who say such things are glass-half-empty people, I say! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Some thoughts:</p><p></p><p>*Pull, push, slide should probably be changed either to some form of knockback, maybe a little extra damage (like maybe 2 per square of movement, or maybe 1d4 or 1d6 per square) or the like. Alternately, you can redefine them in each set-piece battle: a push in the Floating Rocks of Doom area means the PC has to Save or fall off the floating rock into the Pits of Despair.</p><p></p><p>*Opportunity Attacks are a key way to fight the 'grind' of 4E combat, so getting rid of them is bad news. I'd say take a look at 3.5E and jot down situations that provoke AoOs. Re-incorporate these into 4E, and worry less about the movement aspect. I.e., Opportunity Attacks would be provoked by drinking a potion, casting, fishing around in your backpack or belt pouch, standing up from prone, etc. Basically anything that isn't a direct attack. This way, OAs are still in, and thus the Fighter and other classes still get their neat toys.</p><p></p><p>*Flanking might need to be made easier to make up for the lack of movement tactics. Here's how you define flanking: if 2+ people gang up on a single opponent, consider it flanked. Easy peasy. </p><p></p><p>*Ranges, area of effect, all that...run it like you would w/o a map: use your imagination. Caveat: make sure you spend a little extra time thinking about the size of your dungeon rooms and such, and I'd even say map them out as fully as you would for normal 4E, so you have a rough guide of what's going on, and the few rules disputes that might come up still have something that you can refer to and say "Hey, you said you were standing in the doorway, and that's within the 20' burst area if the badguy is standing by the bookshelf, which I did mention"</p><p></p><p>*Powers and stuff that allow you or allies to make small moves ("all allies in the burst may shift 1 square") should instead provide an equivalent "better positioning" bonus on the next attack, maybe +1 per square they could have moved. This represents taking the higher ground, finding an opening in the opponent's fighting style, or throwing some dirt in their face...whatever you'd like.</p><p></p><p>I'd really say that flanking, OAs and push/pull/slide are the biggest "offenders" of the battlegrid need...with those things taken care of, I see no reason why you'd need a battlemap (I still recommend mapping the locations fairly accurately in size for your own notes though).</p><p></p><p>That said, I love battlegrids more and more in 4E, but obviously YMMV.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="timbannock, post: 4595811, member: 17913"] People who say such things are glass-half-empty people, I say! :p Some thoughts: *Pull, push, slide should probably be changed either to some form of knockback, maybe a little extra damage (like maybe 2 per square of movement, or maybe 1d4 or 1d6 per square) or the like. Alternately, you can redefine them in each set-piece battle: a push in the Floating Rocks of Doom area means the PC has to Save or fall off the floating rock into the Pits of Despair. *Opportunity Attacks are a key way to fight the 'grind' of 4E combat, so getting rid of them is bad news. I'd say take a look at 3.5E and jot down situations that provoke AoOs. Re-incorporate these into 4E, and worry less about the movement aspect. I.e., Opportunity Attacks would be provoked by drinking a potion, casting, fishing around in your backpack or belt pouch, standing up from prone, etc. Basically anything that isn't a direct attack. This way, OAs are still in, and thus the Fighter and other classes still get their neat toys. *Flanking might need to be made easier to make up for the lack of movement tactics. Here's how you define flanking: if 2+ people gang up on a single opponent, consider it flanked. Easy peasy. *Ranges, area of effect, all that...run it like you would w/o a map: use your imagination. Caveat: make sure you spend a little extra time thinking about the size of your dungeon rooms and such, and I'd even say map them out as fully as you would for normal 4E, so you have a rough guide of what's going on, and the few rules disputes that might come up still have something that you can refer to and say "Hey, you said you were standing in the doorway, and that's within the 20' burst area if the badguy is standing by the bookshelf, which I did mention" *Powers and stuff that allow you or allies to make small moves ("all allies in the burst may shift 1 square") should instead provide an equivalent "better positioning" bonus on the next attack, maybe +1 per square they could have moved. This represents taking the higher ground, finding an opening in the opponent's fighting style, or throwing some dirt in their face...whatever you'd like. I'd really say that flanking, OAs and push/pull/slide are the biggest "offenders" of the battlegrid need...with those things taken care of, I see no reason why you'd need a battlemap (I still recommend mapping the locations fairly accurately in size for your own notes though). That said, I love battlegrids more and more in 4E, but obviously YMMV. [/QUOTE]
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