Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Changing Paragon Paths / Epic Destinies
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Skallgrim" data-source="post: 5127439" data-attributes="member: 79271"><p>Short answer: </p><p></p><p>Not allowed by the rules.</p><p></p><p>Long Answer:</p><p></p><p>As a DM, this isn't answered as a simple yes/no. There are, for me, things to consider:</p><p></p><p>First, is there a newly released paragon path/epic destiny which is more appropriate/interesting/desired? </p><p></p><p>I don't want to punish a player just because he's been with me from the start of 4E. For example, our ranger picked Stormwarden, but now that he has seen Lone Wolf, both the player and I agree that paragon path fits the character's behavior and attitude much, much better.</p><p></p><p>I would be much less likely to allow someone to rework a PP/ED that has been available the whole darn time.</p><p></p><p>Second, is the desired paragon path/epic destiny better able to represent how the character plays/appears/behaves? </p><p></p><p>Even if the player has had the opportunity all along, it is possible to realize that you've made a wrong choice. If someone picked, say, Pitfighter at level 11, but in the intervening levels realized that their character was becoming more meditative (and wanted to go Kensai) or more defensive (and wanted to go Iron Vanguard), I would be more likely to allow it.</p><p></p><p>If someone just wanted to change how their character worked, and not use the rules to better represent their character, I would be much less inclined to allow it, though I would if I felt that the initial choice was really poor and the character wasn't really reaping any benefits from their paragon path.</p><p></p><p>Finally, can the change in the character be explained "in the game"?</p><p></p><p>I am totally not a fan of "My character was an elf, but I want to play a shifter instead" syndrome. Some groups don't mind it, but it drives me nuts. If we can come up with a reason/explanation/excuse to allow a character to rework a Paragon path, then I am MUCH more likely to allow it, and I am extremely unlikely to allow a PP change without such a rationale, no matter how well-considered the change is. </p><p></p><p>For example, our ranger, who has worshipped Melora, is realizing that his destiny is to serve the Raven Queen. The player is OK with this, but the character is still having grave doubts about it. However, he is coming around to realize that the events of his life have led him to this point, and that no matter how much he loves trees and squirrels and flowers and birds and crap, he is someone that has to stop Orcus from killing the Raven Queen. The character is having a major life-altering event (and the character is also taking a divine multiclass feat to represent this), so I am OK with the character's PP changing. The ranger is realizing that "who he needs to be" is not "who he wants to be".</p><p></p><p>Other options would include resurrection, near-death experiences, religious conversions, solo journeys and the like. Perhaps in the down-time between adventures, one character goes on a voyage for several months (which pass uneventfully). He could return, much changed, while the same changes would seem weird between two subsequent encounters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Skallgrim, post: 5127439, member: 79271"] Short answer: Not allowed by the rules. Long Answer: As a DM, this isn't answered as a simple yes/no. There are, for me, things to consider: First, is there a newly released paragon path/epic destiny which is more appropriate/interesting/desired? I don't want to punish a player just because he's been with me from the start of 4E. For example, our ranger picked Stormwarden, but now that he has seen Lone Wolf, both the player and I agree that paragon path fits the character's behavior and attitude much, much better. I would be much less likely to allow someone to rework a PP/ED that has been available the whole darn time. Second, is the desired paragon path/epic destiny better able to represent how the character plays/appears/behaves? Even if the player has had the opportunity all along, it is possible to realize that you've made a wrong choice. If someone picked, say, Pitfighter at level 11, but in the intervening levels realized that their character was becoming more meditative (and wanted to go Kensai) or more defensive (and wanted to go Iron Vanguard), I would be more likely to allow it. If someone just wanted to change how their character worked, and not use the rules to better represent their character, I would be much less inclined to allow it, though I would if I felt that the initial choice was really poor and the character wasn't really reaping any benefits from their paragon path. Finally, can the change in the character be explained "in the game"? I am totally not a fan of "My character was an elf, but I want to play a shifter instead" syndrome. Some groups don't mind it, but it drives me nuts. If we can come up with a reason/explanation/excuse to allow a character to rework a Paragon path, then I am MUCH more likely to allow it, and I am extremely unlikely to allow a PP change without such a rationale, no matter how well-considered the change is. For example, our ranger, who has worshipped Melora, is realizing that his destiny is to serve the Raven Queen. The player is OK with this, but the character is still having grave doubts about it. However, he is coming around to realize that the events of his life have led him to this point, and that no matter how much he loves trees and squirrels and flowers and birds and crap, he is someone that has to stop Orcus from killing the Raven Queen. The character is having a major life-altering event (and the character is also taking a divine multiclass feat to represent this), so I am OK with the character's PP changing. The ranger is realizing that "who he needs to be" is not "who he wants to be". Other options would include resurrection, near-death experiences, religious conversions, solo journeys and the like. Perhaps in the down-time between adventures, one character goes on a voyage for several months (which pass uneventfully). He could return, much changed, while the same changes would seem weird between two subsequent encounters. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Changing Paragon Paths / Epic Destinies
Top