Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Chaosmancer Martial Brews
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9049313" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p><h3>Fixing Strength and Lifting</h3><p></p><p>So, going to start with a simpler change, but one that has BIG implications for the game. Lifting, pushing, pulling, ect. There are two major problems with the original lifting rules. 1) Most things aren’t strong enough. 2) There is no guidance on what an athletics check to increase the lift looks like.</p><p></p><p>Now, I know Enworld, so first I’m going to prove point #1 briefly.</p><p></p><p>The official rules are Strength score x 15 (double for max) And you end up doubling the weight for every size increase. This is more than enough for most equipment, so why is this a problem?</p><p></p><p>Because big things are too weak. Take the Hill Giant. With a strength of 21 they can lift: 21 x 15 x 2 x 2 = 1,260 lbs. Now this is nowhere near weak right? Except… read the Hill Giant lore and it mentions they use uprooted trees to fight. Take a gander at a logging company website, and you will see that the average log the size of a person (which is cut down from a full tree’s height) weighs in at approximately 1,500 lbs. Now, a Hill giant isn’t at their max capacity with the 1,260, but they would certainly be unable to swing it around as a weapon without penalties.</p><p></p><p>And this continues. Rocs and Tarrasque’s are too weak to even attempt picking up elephants, ect. So, I wanted to fix that problem, and in the process, I ended up creating something interesting for martials too.</p><p></p><p>The new equation is more complicated, so I made a chart, but I feel that is okay. You end up doing your strength score ^ X, where X is determined by your size category. Then doubling it for your maximum. The exponents are:</p><p></p><p>Diminutive: ^0.5</p><p>Tiny ^1</p><p>Small ^1.5</p><p>Medium ^2</p><p>Large ^2.5</p><p>Huge ^3</p><p>Gargantuan ^3.5</p><p></p><p>So, what kind of ranges does this give us? Well, your average Hill Giant can now lift 9,261 lbs. Plenty to uproot and swing a small tree, or to pick up a rhino and toss it. Which, for a giant, feels about correct.</p><p></p><p>This also means the mighty Tarrasque, strongest of all monsters, can with some strain, drag 295,770 lbs. That is a cruise liner. Which, for a gargantuan strength 30 beast, makes sense.</p><p></p><p>How does this affect martials? Well, your average martial starts at 16 strength. That is them being able to lift between 256 and 512 lbs, which isn’t much higher than they started with (240 - 480) but scales much faster. Additionally, 500 to 600 lbs? That is a horse. Or a harley-davidson motorcycle, that they can lift and carry.</p><p></p><p>But if you are playing a creature with the large stature ability, like Goliaths or Orcs? Instead of 480 to 960, they are able to lift 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. Which opens up a lot of utility from just being incredibly strong. I tried it out with an Iron Body Goliath Monk, and they had a blast just from realizing how strong they were.</p><p></p><p>However, isn’t this just a single solution, didn’t I say there were two problems? Yep. And the second solution is just… setting some DCs.</p><p></p><p>If you want to push/lift/drag more than your normal maximum amount, then you can roll athletics.</p><p></p><p>DC 15 = x1.25</p><p>DC 20 = x1.50</p><p>DC 25 = x2.00</p><p></p><p>So, you have your normal Strength 16 human fighter, he can drag 512 lbs over his head, and has a +5 at level 1. He needs to roll aside a boulder blocking them in a cave? Well, he now knows that if he rolls a 10 on the check, he can push 640 lbs. 15 on the check? 768 lbs. Nat 20? He can push 1,024 lbs. Not only is this incredibly impressive amounts of strength, but now he can pretty quickly figure out his odds of success at moving the boulder, and if they may need to find a different way, instead of just guessing (both for them and the DM)</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><u>Expected Complaint:</u></strong> This makes people TOO strong, this is unrealistic!</p><p></p><p>Frankly, no. Firstly, DnD is a world saturated in magic. Every aspect of the world from the soil to the air to the sun is magical. Secondly though… I think people often forget how strong 16 strength IS. 16 Strength is the same strength score given to a gorilla. Apes in DnD are medium creatures with a 16 strength. IRL they are capable of ripping small trees out of the ground and I'd exactly expect they could drag aound a motorcycle by the wheel. You have to remember that when you are picturing an “average person” you are actually picturing someone who in DnD terms is strength 8 or less</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9049313, member: 6801228"] [HEADING=2]Fixing Strength and Lifting[/HEADING] So, going to start with a simpler change, but one that has BIG implications for the game. Lifting, pushing, pulling, ect. There are two major problems with the original lifting rules. 1) Most things aren’t strong enough. 2) There is no guidance on what an athletics check to increase the lift looks like. Now, I know Enworld, so first I’m going to prove point #1 briefly. The official rules are Strength score x 15 (double for max) And you end up doubling the weight for every size increase. This is more than enough for most equipment, so why is this a problem? Because big things are too weak. Take the Hill Giant. With a strength of 21 they can lift: 21 x 15 x 2 x 2 = 1,260 lbs. Now this is nowhere near weak right? Except… read the Hill Giant lore and it mentions they use uprooted trees to fight. Take a gander at a logging company website, and you will see that the average log the size of a person (which is cut down from a full tree’s height) weighs in at approximately 1,500 lbs. Now, a Hill giant isn’t at their max capacity with the 1,260, but they would certainly be unable to swing it around as a weapon without penalties. And this continues. Rocs and Tarrasque’s are too weak to even attempt picking up elephants, ect. So, I wanted to fix that problem, and in the process, I ended up creating something interesting for martials too. The new equation is more complicated, so I made a chart, but I feel that is okay. You end up doing your strength score ^ X, where X is determined by your size category. Then doubling it for your maximum. The exponents are: Diminutive: ^0.5 Tiny ^1 Small ^1.5 Medium ^2 Large ^2.5 Huge ^3 Gargantuan ^3.5 So, what kind of ranges does this give us? Well, your average Hill Giant can now lift 9,261 lbs. Plenty to uproot and swing a small tree, or to pick up a rhino and toss it. Which, for a giant, feels about correct. This also means the mighty Tarrasque, strongest of all monsters, can with some strain, drag 295,770 lbs. That is a cruise liner. Which, for a gargantuan strength 30 beast, makes sense. How does this affect martials? Well, your average martial starts at 16 strength. That is them being able to lift between 256 and 512 lbs, which isn’t much higher than they started with (240 - 480) but scales much faster. Additionally, 500 to 600 lbs? That is a horse. Or a harley-davidson motorcycle, that they can lift and carry. But if you are playing a creature with the large stature ability, like Goliaths or Orcs? Instead of 480 to 960, they are able to lift 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. Which opens up a lot of utility from just being incredibly strong. I tried it out with an Iron Body Goliath Monk, and they had a blast just from realizing how strong they were. However, isn’t this just a single solution, didn’t I say there were two problems? Yep. And the second solution is just… setting some DCs. If you want to push/lift/drag more than your normal maximum amount, then you can roll athletics. DC 15 = x1.25 DC 20 = x1.50 DC 25 = x2.00 So, you have your normal Strength 16 human fighter, he can drag 512 lbs over his head, and has a +5 at level 1. He needs to roll aside a boulder blocking them in a cave? Well, he now knows that if he rolls a 10 on the check, he can push 640 lbs. 15 on the check? 768 lbs. Nat 20? He can push 1,024 lbs. Not only is this incredibly impressive amounts of strength, but now he can pretty quickly figure out his odds of success at moving the boulder, and if they may need to find a different way, instead of just guessing (both for them and the DM) [B][U]Expected Complaint:[/U][/B] This makes people TOO strong, this is unrealistic! Frankly, no. Firstly, DnD is a world saturated in magic. Every aspect of the world from the soil to the air to the sun is magical. Secondly though… I think people often forget how strong 16 strength IS. 16 Strength is the same strength score given to a gorilla. Apes in DnD are medium creatures with a 16 strength. IRL they are capable of ripping small trees out of the ground and I'd exactly expect they could drag aound a motorcycle by the wheel. You have to remember that when you are picturing an “average person” you are actually picturing someone who in DnD terms is strength 8 or less [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Chaosmancer Martial Brews
Top