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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9050091" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>The proposed "strength and lifting" rules look interesting, though I want to look at it a bit closer.</p><p></p><p>PHB14 rules have a max lift of 30x your Str. Above 15x, your speed is reduced. The proposal uses Str^X * 2, with the progressive exponent based on size. I'll chart out an A → B comparison for lift capacity between PHB14 and the proposal, using a few notable Str values that players may reach.</p><p></p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>Size</th><th>8 Str</th><th>16 Str</th><th>20 Str</th><th>25 Str</th></tr><tr><td>Tiny</td><td>120 → 16</td><td>240 → 32</td><td>300 → 40</td><td>375 → 50</td></tr><tr><td>Small</td><td>240 → 46</td><td>480 → 128</td><td>600 → 180</td><td>750 → 250</td></tr><tr><td>Medium</td><td>240 → 128</td><td>480 → 512</td><td>600 → 800</td><td>750 → 1250</td></tr><tr><td>Large</td><td>480 → 362</td><td>960 → 2048</td><td>1200 → 3578</td><td>1500 → 6250</td></tr><tr><td>Huge</td><td>960 → 1024</td><td>1920 → 8192</td><td>2400 → 16,000</td><td>3000 → 31,250</td></tr><tr><td>Gargantuan</td><td>1920 → 2896</td><td>3840 → 32,768</td><td>4800 → 71,554</td><td>6000 → 156,250</td></tr></table><p></p><p>So immediately we see that tiny, and even small creatures have massively reduced lift capacity. While I'm not sure I'd argue about tiny, there are several small races that this would have a significant impact on.</p><p></p><p>Medium is weaker at 8 Str, but roughly equal or better at 16+ Str.</p><p></p><p>I'd probably adjust the multiplier for small creatures the same way the PHB does: Small creatures get the same lift calculations as medium creatures, and only drop when you go below that, to tiny. This would still be a nerf for tiny creatures, but it doesn't feel out of line with expectations for such a creature.</p><p></p><p>Large creatures (or effectively large, such as goliaths) get a decent buff. A 20 Str goliath barbarian could lift almost two tons. A Totem barbarian who took the bear aspect at 6th level could lift 7000 pounds. This feels decently epic.</p><p></p><p>Huge creatures get a massive boost. Wielding a tree trunk as a weapon is easily believable. A huge creature with 20 Str can easily lift an elephant, and even carry it around without much trouble if it's not carrying anything else (or gets another point of Str).</p><p></p><p>Gargantuan seems a bit excessive at first, but after some thought I can see it fitting some ludicrous feats of strength. In the 25-30 Str range, you could lift an entire house, or drag a massive galleon through the water. Maybe even lift the galleon if the GM were feeling generous.</p><p></p><p>~</p><p></p><p>So stuff on the higher end seems like it would work fine. The lower end has more trouble, but could mostly be fixed by giving small creatures the same ^2 as medium creatures, and putting tiny creatures at ^1.5.</p><p></p><p>There's also effects which double a creature's carrying capacity, such as the aforementioned barbarian feature. Since in the PHB, doubling your carrying capacity and counting as one size larger are exactly the same, the difference in wording doesn't really matter. However with this proposed scaling, it does.</p><p></p><p>Increasing an effective size category is more like a 4x multiplier on your carrying capacity (more or less), rather than a 2x one. I think all such effects which only state that your lift capacity is doubled should be treated as increasing your effective size category, if using this system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 9050091, member: 6932123"] The proposed "strength and lifting" rules look interesting, though I want to look at it a bit closer. PHB14 rules have a max lift of 30x your Str. Above 15x, your speed is reduced. The proposal uses Str^X * 2, with the progressive exponent based on size. I'll chart out an A → B comparison for lift capacity between PHB14 and the proposal, using a few notable Str values that players may reach. [TABLE] [TR] [TH]Size[/TH] [TH]8 Str[/TH] [TH]16 Str[/TH] [TH]20 Str[/TH] [TH]25 Str[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tiny[/TD] [TD]120 → 16[/TD] [TD]240 → 32[/TD] [TD]300 → 40[/TD] [TD]375 → 50[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]240 → 46[/TD] [TD]480 → 128[/TD] [TD]600 → 180[/TD] [TD]750 → 250[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]240 → 128[/TD] [TD]480 → 512[/TD] [TD]600 → 800[/TD] [TD]750 → 1250[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]480 → 362[/TD] [TD]960 → 2048[/TD] [TD]1200 → 3578[/TD] [TD]1500 → 6250[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]960 → 1024[/TD] [TD]1920 → 8192[/TD] [TD]2400 → 16,000[/TD] [TD]3000 → 31,250[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gargantuan[/TD] [TD]1920 → 2896[/TD] [TD]3840 → 32,768[/TD] [TD]4800 → 71,554[/TD] [TD]6000 → 156,250[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] So immediately we see that tiny, and even small creatures have massively reduced lift capacity. While I'm not sure I'd argue about tiny, there are several small races that this would have a significant impact on. Medium is weaker at 8 Str, but roughly equal or better at 16+ Str. I'd probably adjust the multiplier for small creatures the same way the PHB does: Small creatures get the same lift calculations as medium creatures, and only drop when you go below that, to tiny. This would still be a nerf for tiny creatures, but it doesn't feel out of line with expectations for such a creature. Large creatures (or effectively large, such as goliaths) get a decent buff. A 20 Str goliath barbarian could lift almost two tons. A Totem barbarian who took the bear aspect at 6th level could lift 7000 pounds. This feels decently epic. Huge creatures get a massive boost. Wielding a tree trunk as a weapon is easily believable. A huge creature with 20 Str can easily lift an elephant, and even carry it around without much trouble if it's not carrying anything else (or gets another point of Str). Gargantuan seems a bit excessive at first, but after some thought I can see it fitting some ludicrous feats of strength. In the 25-30 Str range, you could lift an entire house, or drag a massive galleon through the water. Maybe even lift the galleon if the GM were feeling generous. ~ So stuff on the higher end seems like it would work fine. The lower end has more trouble, but could mostly be fixed by giving small creatures the same ^2 as medium creatures, and putting tiny creatures at ^1.5. There's also effects which double a creature's carrying capacity, such as the aforementioned barbarian feature. Since in the PHB, doubling your carrying capacity and counting as one size larger are exactly the same, the difference in wording doesn't really matter. However with this proposed scaling, it does. Increasing an effective size category is more like a 4x multiplier on your carrying capacity (more or less), rather than a 2x one. I think all such effects which only state that your lift capacity is doubled should be treated as increasing your effective size category, if using this system. [/QUOTE]
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