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Character play vs Player play
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6421482" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I think you're missing the point here.</p><p></p><p>It's as if you told me that you painted your kitchen and when I point out that you also papered the trim, I've suddenly added that wallpaper out of thin air. It didn't exist beforehand because you didn't tell me it did, therefore, it cannot possibly exist. </p><p></p><p>I'd say that virtually all folks who play RPG's have used storytelling elements. The idea that you have to ask the DM if you have any living relatives is something I've never even heard suggested. It's not like the DMG comes with a life path chargen system. It's traditional that the player details his own background. It's been that way all the way since day 1. Reading the various PHB's, going back to AD&D, they talk about adding these kinds of details to make your character come alive. Sure, the DM might veto an idea or add to it or change it, but, the idea that I have <em>ask</em> if I have parents is not something I've even heard talked about.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>AFAIC, nope, you as the DM get absolutely no control over my PC. (Barring things like charm or the like I suppose). As a DM, I draw a nice solid box around the PC's and I'm not allowed to play in that playground. I have an entire world to play with. I can do all sorts of things to your character, good and bad. What I don't get to do is rewrite PC details.</p><p></p><p>By the same token, the authorship powers I'm talking about don't rewrite the DM's world either. If a detail is already established, then I wouldn't contradict that detail. However, there are all sorts of details that are not established, and in that space, I prefer the players have resources to fill in the blanks. So, really, nothing is ever being changed.</p><p> </p><p>That needs to be repeated and underlined:</p><p></p><p><em><u>NOTHING IS BEING CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD.</u></em></p><p></p><p>The only thing that is happening is previously unestablished details are being filled in. Those boxes over there were not mentioned, nor was their absence mentioned. It is perfectly believable that there might be some boxes and crates in an alley, so, the player fills in that detail. The player adds in a family member in the town they are in. This contradicts nothing. There are always undetailed citizens in a town. One of them could quite possibly be a family member. Heck, why not allow the player to claim familial ties with an established NPC? Makes for an interesting story, possibly. </p><p></p><p>Once it's established though, details don't get to be changed, because that would be inconsistent. </p><p></p><p>The idea that a DM needs to be able to add details to the PC's because it would be unfair otherwise is ridiculous. The players have direct input on a single character and possibly filling in some undefined details as they occur. The DM has direct input on an entire world. And, let's not forget, the DM generally does have a fair degree of direct input during chargen - backgrounds can be veto'd for a variety of reasons, race, class, whatever, can all be dictated to some degree by the DM. ((No elves!)) About the only time that starts is after the campaign begins, and, even then, the DM can always simply ask the player - "Hey, can I add this NPC to your background?". It's not like it's impossible to add stuff. I would simply run it past the player first.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6421482, member: 22779"] I think you're missing the point here. It's as if you told me that you painted your kitchen and when I point out that you also papered the trim, I've suddenly added that wallpaper out of thin air. It didn't exist beforehand because you didn't tell me it did, therefore, it cannot possibly exist. I'd say that virtually all folks who play RPG's have used storytelling elements. The idea that you have to ask the DM if you have any living relatives is something I've never even heard suggested. It's not like the DMG comes with a life path chargen system. It's traditional that the player details his own background. It's been that way all the way since day 1. Reading the various PHB's, going back to AD&D, they talk about adding these kinds of details to make your character come alive. Sure, the DM might veto an idea or add to it or change it, but, the idea that I have [i]ask[/i] if I have parents is not something I've even heard talked about. AFAIC, nope, you as the DM get absolutely no control over my PC. (Barring things like charm or the like I suppose). As a DM, I draw a nice solid box around the PC's and I'm not allowed to play in that playground. I have an entire world to play with. I can do all sorts of things to your character, good and bad. What I don't get to do is rewrite PC details. By the same token, the authorship powers I'm talking about don't rewrite the DM's world either. If a detail is already established, then I wouldn't contradict that detail. However, there are all sorts of details that are not established, and in that space, I prefer the players have resources to fill in the blanks. So, really, nothing is ever being changed. That needs to be repeated and underlined: [i][u]NOTHING IS BEING CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD.[/u][/i] The only thing that is happening is previously unestablished details are being filled in. Those boxes over there were not mentioned, nor was their absence mentioned. It is perfectly believable that there might be some boxes and crates in an alley, so, the player fills in that detail. The player adds in a family member in the town they are in. This contradicts nothing. There are always undetailed citizens in a town. One of them could quite possibly be a family member. Heck, why not allow the player to claim familial ties with an established NPC? Makes for an interesting story, possibly. Once it's established though, details don't get to be changed, because that would be inconsistent. The idea that a DM needs to be able to add details to the PC's because it would be unfair otherwise is ridiculous. The players have direct input on a single character and possibly filling in some undefined details as they occur. The DM has direct input on an entire world. And, let's not forget, the DM generally does have a fair degree of direct input during chargen - backgrounds can be veto'd for a variety of reasons, race, class, whatever, can all be dictated to some degree by the DM. ((No elves!)) About the only time that starts is after the campaign begins, and, even then, the DM can always simply ask the player - "Hey, can I add this NPC to your background?". It's not like it's impossible to add stuff. I would simply run it past the player first. [/QUOTE]
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