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Character play vs Player play
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6421642" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>It isn't a staple of RPG's, in your opinion, I think you mean. I can point to any number of elements of narrative control built into rpg's from day 1. Spells being the most obvious example, as I said before. THere's no functional difference between Player 1 overcoming the challenge of climbing through the window by casting a spell and Player 2 adding believable details to the game. The entire set up of the game is contrived to create interesting scenarios for the players. You never go into an empty dungeon where everything was cleared out a week ago. Bombing the party with a red dragon at 1st level is considered a very bad thing, so, shock and surprise, red dragons are not met on the 1st level of a dungeon. Players have always had significant control over their own back stories and are, in fact, encouraged to create such to bring their character to life. On and on. Narrative control has always been a staple of RPG's. </p><p></p><p>-----</p><p></p><p>I wonder if the idea of rolling being bad works both ways. If my character lies to an NPC, how does the DM determine the NPC's reactions? If it's purely DM fiat, then it's all about playing the DM, and not the game. If I tell a good enough lie, in the DM's judgement, then I succeed, regardless of my character. Do DM's who hate players relying on the dice to resolve challenges also refuse to use dice in the other direction? I don't think so, judging from this thread, since several DM's have talked about wanting to remove bias from their judgements. Roll for the presence of a beard or whether or not the door is closed.</p><p></p><p>So, if it's good that a DM relies on the dice to remove bias, why is it bad for the player to do the same thing?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6421642, member: 22779"] It isn't a staple of RPG's, in your opinion, I think you mean. I can point to any number of elements of narrative control built into rpg's from day 1. Spells being the most obvious example, as I said before. THere's no functional difference between Player 1 overcoming the challenge of climbing through the window by casting a spell and Player 2 adding believable details to the game. The entire set up of the game is contrived to create interesting scenarios for the players. You never go into an empty dungeon where everything was cleared out a week ago. Bombing the party with a red dragon at 1st level is considered a very bad thing, so, shock and surprise, red dragons are not met on the 1st level of a dungeon. Players have always had significant control over their own back stories and are, in fact, encouraged to create such to bring their character to life. On and on. Narrative control has always been a staple of RPG's. ----- I wonder if the idea of rolling being bad works both ways. If my character lies to an NPC, how does the DM determine the NPC's reactions? If it's purely DM fiat, then it's all about playing the DM, and not the game. If I tell a good enough lie, in the DM's judgement, then I succeed, regardless of my character. Do DM's who hate players relying on the dice to resolve challenges also refuse to use dice in the other direction? I don't think so, judging from this thread, since several DM's have talked about wanting to remove bias from their judgements. Roll for the presence of a beard or whether or not the door is closed. So, if it's good that a DM relies on the dice to remove bias, why is it bad for the player to do the same thing? [/QUOTE]
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