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<blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 6421659" data-attributes="member: 10479"><p>Naw, RPGs (trad games to some) are pretty much about players affecting the world through their characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We went over this above where it's been pointed out that spells are a character resource and don't break the conceit that players are affecting the world through their character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's exactly the functional difference between an RPG (trad game) and a storytelling game. Essentially, you've (always?) played RPGs with storytelling game elements but I have played RPGs in the "trad" sense and recognize that fundamental difference in the games.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that means different things to different people.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've played in games with worlds run for multiple player groups where such was not only possible but one group of PCs specifically looked for such a place, a dungeon/tomb recently cleaned out by another group, to use as a base of operations. Many GMs do make adjustments to their campaign setting based on the interactions of groups who have played in them.</p><p></p><p>I do. My Grymvald setting which first came into being in 1974 as a little dungeon built by a kid near a little town so the players had a place where their PCs could purchase gear. As the PCs moved through the dungeon and killed things or died, I updated room descriptions. There were a number of places, bottlenecks, where PCs could find caches of starting level gear if they didn't mind cleaning it.</p><p></p><p>Periodically, I have advanced the timeline of Grymvald, between campaigns and/or groups, by anywhere from 5 to 50 years. There are tombs encasing PCs from some of my earliest campaigns that would be great places for PCs of today to plunder, others do indeed lie empty.</p><p></p><p>I'll see if I can find some time this weekend to post about an ongoing game concern which involves two different PC groups potentially happening upon the same cursed sword. It involves a number of things that have been part of this discussion including character background creation and narrative control, as well as PCs finding a location that was already plundered to some extent by an entirely different PC group from years prior.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure you've been at this long enough to remember the thrill of hiding from dragons while exploring the Outdoor Survival map with low level PCs. Dungeon Crawl Classics is a recent RPG that fairly well exploits that conceit to the delight of many. Even the character creation phase of the game (which happens in early gameplay) is called "the funnel" because it includes multiple PCs being whittled down in a Darwinian slaughter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a GM-specific thing but as I pointed out above happens prior to gameplay, for the most part, and if used as a way to gain narrative advantage in an RPG, a GM in the trad game sense would randomly roll most likely for PC family details and such.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. I, too, am sensing a pattern. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By players? Nope. As someone who started RPGing in 1974 I can tell you, Hussar, that you're mistaken on this point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mark CMG, post: 6421659, member: 10479"] Naw, RPGs (trad games to some) are pretty much about players affecting the world through their characters. We went over this above where it's been pointed out that spells are a character resource and don't break the conceit that players are affecting the world through their character. That's exactly the functional difference between an RPG (trad game) and a storytelling game. Essentially, you've (always?) played RPGs with storytelling game elements but I have played RPGs in the "trad" sense and recognize that fundamental difference in the games. I think that means different things to different people. I've played in games with worlds run for multiple player groups where such was not only possible but one group of PCs specifically looked for such a place, a dungeon/tomb recently cleaned out by another group, to use as a base of operations. Many GMs do make adjustments to their campaign setting based on the interactions of groups who have played in them. I do. My Grymvald setting which first came into being in 1974 as a little dungeon built by a kid near a little town so the players had a place where their PCs could purchase gear. As the PCs moved through the dungeon and killed things or died, I updated room descriptions. There were a number of places, bottlenecks, where PCs could find caches of starting level gear if they didn't mind cleaning it. Periodically, I have advanced the timeline of Grymvald, between campaigns and/or groups, by anywhere from 5 to 50 years. There are tombs encasing PCs from some of my earliest campaigns that would be great places for PCs of today to plunder, others do indeed lie empty. I'll see if I can find some time this weekend to post about an ongoing game concern which involves two different PC groups potentially happening upon the same cursed sword. It involves a number of things that have been part of this discussion including character background creation and narrative control, as well as PCs finding a location that was already plundered to some extent by an entirely different PC group from years prior. I'm not sure you've been at this long enough to remember the thrill of hiding from dragons while exploring the Outdoor Survival map with low level PCs. Dungeon Crawl Classics is a recent RPG that fairly well exploits that conceit to the delight of many. Even the character creation phase of the game (which happens in early gameplay) is called "the funnel" because it includes multiple PCs being whittled down in a Darwinian slaughter. That's a GM-specific thing but as I pointed out above happens prior to gameplay, for the most part, and if used as a way to gain narrative advantage in an RPG, a GM in the trad game sense would randomly roll most likely for PC family details and such. Yes. I, too, am sensing a pattern. ;) By players? Nope. As someone who started RPGing in 1974 I can tell you, Hussar, that you're mistaken on this point. [/QUOTE]
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