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Character Training...

Mr.Satan

First Post
A PC in a campaign I'm in is very low level. He has been fortunate enough to encounter a 100th level Greater Deity. Said deity is interested in investing a little time in the PC and training him.

D&D really has no rules for characters being trained by deities for special tasks, except, perhaps The Book of Vile Darkness, which covers evil characters being called away by dark powers, etc.

My questions...

What is the highest conceivable level said deity can train the PC to?

I'd guess roughly 1/2 said deity's own level, but I'm uncertain.

Would this require an EXP expenditure on the part of said deity?

Other information...

Golems and summoned demons will be used as opponents for the training, but the training will not be roleplayed as it really isn't something that would be interesting to roleplay since Hell (and training) is repetition.
 

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Hey Mr.Satan! :)

To be honest I don't like the idea of a deity 'Training' a character. If by training you mean - just gives them levels. Its cheap, nasty and a bit pointless. More likely if the deity wants a higher level mortal minion they'll just bargain with an existing one, not pick some nobody off the street and just give them 30 levels (or whatever).

I think a character should have to gain its levels thru adventuring/experience.

The ways around this are the 'Clash of the Titans' escape clauses.

1. The 'mortal' could be given some sort of divinity template (or 'born' that way)
2. The mortal can be equipped by the deity (as Perseus was).
 

Mr.Satan

First Post
Said deity is secretly the PC's father. So the decision to train him isn't arbitrary (even if it were, he's also a chaos god...they do all manner of strange things), it's just that the DM doesn't feel like roleplaying out the repetitious training vs. golems, golems, golems, and more golems, even if they are a variety of golems and random monsters are tossed in for spice.

I'm looking for an actual answer to this beyond exclamations of..."Its cheap, nasty and a bit pointless."...that's not really answering the question and in a game where one can Siphon experience points out of someone, I'd think training from a deity is hardly broken by comparison. :p

I need to know what might be possible. I know that in movies and stories powerful beings train ordinary individuals all the time. They just gloss it over and avoid focusing on it at length because it's not very exciting.

As for divine templates. The deity won't grant him divinity, but he will put the PC on the right path by giving him a map of monsters to slay. The training is to prepare him for that Hell.
 
Last edited:

Howdy Mr.Satan! :)

Mr.Satan said:
Said deity is secretly the PC's father.

So its a Zeus - Perseus type situation.

So the decision to train him isn't arbitrary (even if it were, he's also a chaos god...they do all manner of strange things),

The decision to train him IS arbitrary.

If the deity needs a Level 30 (or whatever) hero right now, they should just pick one of their Level 30 heroes/servants. You don't pick a Level 1 character, snap your fingers and make them Level 30.

When I was roleplaying Thrin I always chose the best of the best mortal heroes, kitted them out and maybe roleplayed them on an adventure or two before they faced the meat grinder that was S'mon's villainous machinations. Typically these guys would gain a few levels, perhaps ten or so for the absolute pinnacle heroes over a year or two of real time.

it's just that the DM doesn't feel like roleplaying out the repetitious training vs. golems, golems, golems, and more golems, even if they are a variety of golems and random monsters are tossed in for spice.

Frankly I wouldn't give any experience for any of that. If there's no chance of injury/death, then the training is a sham. Even if the character is slain, you're just going to raise/resurrect him. Thus there is no risk. Simulated combat is all well and good, but its no substitute for actual FIELD experience - which is what experience points are.

I'm looking for an actual answer to this beyond exclamations of..."Its cheap, nasty and a bit pointless."...

I think you are looking for me to validate something that cannot legitimately be rationalized.

that's not really answering the question and in a game where one can Siphon experience points out of someone, I'd think training from a deity is hardly broken by comparison. :p

There's a reason why Siphon [Effect] isn't a Level 0 cantrip and this is it.

I need to know what might be possible. I know that in movies and stories powerful beings train ordinary individuals all the time. They just gloss it over and avoid focusing on it at length because it's not very exciting.

I think the difference here is that you want to go from zero to hero by a click of the fingers. Whereas in the movie/story there's probably some sort period of months/years that are glossed over. You can't do that in a roleplaying game (with a PC anyway) and maintain any level of fair play.

As for divine templates. The deity won't grant him divinity, but he will put the PC on the right path by giving him a map of monsters to slay. The training is to prepare him for that Hell.

If the character is the son of a greater deity then by default he should already have a divinity template...he doesn't need to be granted one.
 

paradox42

First Post
Rationalizing it is easy if you use the QP/XP equivalency that my campaign did when we went to divine PCs. We used the notion that 1 QP was worth 25 XP to allow for deities to expend personal power (their QP) to raise mortals connected to them to higher power levels, directly.

It was, after all, true that in 1E and earlier editions, hit points and other benefits of higher level were said to not only be the result of greater learning on the part of the high-level character, but also the result of the favor of higher beings like gods (who naturally have the power to grant favors like miraculous escapes from certain death, for example a Reflex save against a Fireball allowing the Rogue to take no damage at all despite being squarely within the area of effect of the explosion- while a Commoner who was in the explosion with the Rogue would certainly be roasted to a crisp).

The fact that the conversion of XP to QP and vice versa involved some loss (not precisely the 1-for-10 rule in the IH, but similar) meant that we didn't allow direct one-to-one transfers- but if, for example, you got enough XP to raise your HD to a number higher than that allowed by your present divine tier and template, then you are allowed to convert extra XP to QP directly- using a formula of 50 XP = 1 QP (if memory serves. I may be wrong, it's been years since I used these formulas). OTOH, if you have enough QP to go up to the next divine tier, but you don't yet meet the HD requirements, then you can spend extra QP to get XP and raise your HD more quickly. I think we went with 1 QP = 5 XP in that case.

But this meant that since mortal priests are supposed to get power from the deity, and likewise beings such as your Prophets, then you should likewise be able to spend QP to help mortals by giving them HD (and hence, level-ups) as well. So we worked out a system for that too. The rule we used, in the end, was that if the mortal has a direct connection to you the deity spending the QP- by which I mean, the mortal is your priest, or has a 1-or-2-DR Divine template from you, or is your actual child somehow, then you get to spend the cheapest amount: 1 QP from you gives the mortal 1 XP. If the mortal is none of the above, but is still connected to you in some manner, such as being a follower of your religion, or being a grandchild or similar second-order relative, then you can spend 2 QP to give the mortal 1 XP. Mortals outside even that category are the most expensive; they need to have 4 QP spent to give them 1 XP.

These numbers look expensive at first glance, and they certainly are for deities at the level of Demigod or so- but consider for a moment what sort of power Greater Deities can throw around. A Greater God has hundreds of thousands of QP to spend on "petty cash" without really making a dent in his QP total- and a mortal only requires 1000 XP to go from 1st level to 2nd.

So yes, when my PCs reached the higher divine tiers, they started using this option and other similar ones (such as making new races of beings) to do some significant minion-creating in the game world. One PC not only declared an assassin who'd been a favorite companion of hers as her Prophet, but also proceeded to give him over 70 levels, bringing his total to 100 (recall that, in my game, I had vastly different numbers of HD required for each divine tier- Greater Deities for example have a 400 HD minimum). IMO, this option for minion-creation really enhanced the game, in a lot of ways. The players certainly seemed to like it!
 

Hey guys,

The difference between what Paradox is saying and what I think Mr Satan is asking is that in the case of Paradox' example its PCs giving XP (via QP) to NPC minions.

Whereas (if I have it correct?) Mr Satan is asking about NPCs giving XP to PCs.

In the first case the PCs are expending a resource. In the second case, the PC is gaining something for nothing.

That's the crux of the matter.
 

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