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<blockquote data-quote="bone_naga" data-source="post: 6658303" data-attributes="member: 85939"><p>A vested interest certainly invites scrutiny, but it doesn't automatically mean the results are wrong. Otherwise I could just as easily dismiss your link from the VPC due to its anti-gun bias. Also, it wasn't an NRA study.</p><p></p><p>I think justifiable homicide numbers are a poor measure of defensive gun use. Most DGUs don't kill the attacker. Many don't even require for any shots to be fired at all. The defensive gun owner isn't trying to kill someone else, just end the attack, as opposed to a murderer who is making an active attempt to kill his target.</p><p></p><p>Quite possible. Any survey generally entails extrapolating results from a small sample population, which leaves room for error, whether it was intentional or not. I will also say that Kleck's 2.5 million number is higher than most other studies.</p><p></p><p>I will agree that it's not clear, but it's certainly worth consideration. If the low end result estimate is 100,000 per year and the high end estimate is 2.5 million, it seems likely that the truth is somewhere in between. Not necessarily the middle, but hardly an insignificant number. It's also not clear exactly whether a law that reduces the ability for lawful ownership and use would have an equally proportional impact on criminal use.</p><p></p><p>Another item for consideration: if crime in the US was only differentiated from other countries by guns, then our non-gun homicide rate should be equal to or in fact lower than other countries (since people that would otherwise kill with a knife or other implement will instead gravitate towards guns). But if you compare the homicide rates in the US and the UK, after you adjust our rate to remove the number of gun-related homicides, we still have a higher homicide rate than the UK.</p><p></p><p>Please excuse the use of an obviously pro-gun website, but its sources are all cited if you care to check their work. It's basically laziness on my part so that I don't have to look up as many web links.</p><p></p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate</a></p><p></p><p>http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2012a/commsumm.nsf/b4a3962433b52fa787256e5f00670a71/10498c3a3264be7887257998006fe0d7/$FILE/HseJud0202AttachN.pdf</p><p></p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html" target="_blank">http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html" target="_blank">http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html" target="_blank">http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html" target="_blank">http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html</a></p><p><a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html" target="_blank"></a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bone_naga, post: 6658303, member: 85939"] A vested interest certainly invites scrutiny, but it doesn't automatically mean the results are wrong. Otherwise I could just as easily dismiss your link from the VPC due to its anti-gun bias. Also, it wasn't an NRA study. I think justifiable homicide numbers are a poor measure of defensive gun use. Most DGUs don't kill the attacker. Many don't even require for any shots to be fired at all. The defensive gun owner isn't trying to kill someone else, just end the attack, as opposed to a murderer who is making an active attempt to kill his target. Quite possible. Any survey generally entails extrapolating results from a small sample population, which leaves room for error, whether it was intentional or not. I will also say that Kleck's 2.5 million number is higher than most other studies. I will agree that it's not clear, but it's certainly worth consideration. If the low end result estimate is 100,000 per year and the high end estimate is 2.5 million, it seems likely that the truth is somewhere in between. Not necessarily the middle, but hardly an insignificant number. It's also not clear exactly whether a law that reduces the ability for lawful ownership and use would have an equally proportional impact on criminal use. Another item for consideration: if crime in the US was only differentiated from other countries by guns, then our non-gun homicide rate should be equal to or in fact lower than other countries (since people that would otherwise kill with a knife or other implement will instead gravitate towards guns). But if you compare the homicide rates in the US and the UK, after you adjust our rate to remove the number of gun-related homicides, we still have a higher homicide rate than the UK. Please excuse the use of an obviously pro-gun website, but its sources are all cited if you care to check their work. It's basically laziness on my part so that I don't have to look up as many web links. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/URL] http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2012a/commsumm.nsf/b4a3962433b52fa787256e5f00670a71/10498c3a3264be7887257998006fe0d7/$FILE/HseJud0202AttachN.pdf [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use[/URL] [URL]http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html[/URL] [URL="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html"]http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html [/URL] [/QUOTE]
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