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Class Analysis: Fighter and Bard
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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 6363545" data-attributes="member: 1879"><p>Maybe? It depends on what you consider powerful. If you want Boromir level power you're set. If you want Chu Cullainin (who was a Sidhe trained berserker) then you probably need to be a magic using and weilding berserker, like he was. Totem Path Barbarian and a couple of magic items ought to do it. The debate is not particularly about combat power, even a glance at Jacks tables will show you that a fighter is deadly. It's about the non-hp related paths to victory that a spell-caster can employ that a fighter does not have hard-coded into the system. If you want access to reality warping power, the system will make you admit you are using reality warping power. I fail to see the issue.</p><p></p><p>But as I said, there are no magicless classes. Not a one. There are only magicless subclasses. Path of the Berserker, Champion, Battle Master, Assasin, Thief, that's it. And even the thief still has Use Magic Device.</p><p></p><p>Now the level of mojo the other classes and sub-classes grant is not equal. Nothing a Totem Barbarian or Arcane Trickster can do will ever be the equal of a Wish. But they have enough tricks to make sure you don't miss out on all the fun. And fun is the point of the game.</p><p></p><p>If you want to play anime levels of power, while claiming not to use magic, I'd suggest Iron Heroes maybe? Plenty of systems will let you bring the WaHoo but things like Exalted or even the Hero system will plainly label it as "Not mere mortal muscle" which seems to be the sole objection to how 5e is organized.</p><p></p><p>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is there any argument against the Champion as it stands that doesn't boil down to "I want magic, but I don't want to call it magic" mixed with a healthy dose of niche protection?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Andor, post: 6363545, member: 1879"] Maybe? It depends on what you consider powerful. If you want Boromir level power you're set. If you want Chu Cullainin (who was a Sidhe trained berserker) then you probably need to be a magic using and weilding berserker, like he was. Totem Path Barbarian and a couple of magic items ought to do it. The debate is not particularly about combat power, even a glance at Jacks tables will show you that a fighter is deadly. It's about the non-hp related paths to victory that a spell-caster can employ that a fighter does not have hard-coded into the system. If you want access to reality warping power, the system will make you admit you are using reality warping power. I fail to see the issue. But as I said, there are no magicless classes. Not a one. There are only magicless subclasses. Path of the Berserker, Champion, Battle Master, Assasin, Thief, that's it. And even the thief still has Use Magic Device. Now the level of mojo the other classes and sub-classes grant is not equal. Nothing a Totem Barbarian or Arcane Trickster can do will ever be the equal of a Wish. But they have enough tricks to make sure you don't miss out on all the fun. And fun is the point of the game. If you want to play anime levels of power, while claiming not to use magic, I'd suggest Iron Heroes maybe? Plenty of systems will let you bring the WaHoo but things like Exalted or even the Hero system will plainly label it as "Not mere mortal muscle" which seems to be the sole objection to how 5e is organized. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is there any argument against the Champion as it stands that doesn't boil down to "I want magic, but I don't want to call it magic" mixed with a healthy dose of niche protection? [/QUOTE]
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Class Analysis: Fighter and Bard
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