Level Up (A5E) Class-dipping feats from O5e

[xiphumor]

There are a handful of O5e feats from TCoE that I’d like to see equivalents of for A5e (although obviously the TCoE feats can still be used at any given table with Narrator approval). Eldritch Adept, Metamagic Adept, and Fighting Initiate are the three I specifically have in mind, but I would love to see more of these kinds of feats in general. At present, the only such feat officially in A5e is Martial Studies, which grants two savant tricks.

That being said, I wanted to start a conversation as to whether such feats should be in A5e, and whether any particular features would or would not make for good candidates. The two most tantalizing to me are the Furious Critical and Wild Shape, perhaps under the names “Hot Headed” and “Totem Spirit.”

P.S. The AG has the three “Training” feats which allow you to steal exploration knacks, divine lessons, and skill tricks, so there’s not a taboo against class borrowings. As an aside, I think we should flesh out this for the rest of the classes. I already homebrewed Ingenious Training at my table, which grants proficiency with improvised weapons and two clever schemes.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I love those feats since they're kind of like multi-classing light feats and think they should be included.

I've had discussions with my players about this as some of them prefer the feat dip as opposed to level dip option and as such we've done some homebrewing.

So when I look at classes I kind of divide class abilities into 2 categories, Hard or Soft. Now there's no set rules I use for what goes into each category, but generally I lump the abilities that really cement the class identity into the hard category and all others into the soft category.

So using the fighter as an example, for A5E I would likely consider the Maneuver Socialization, Reserves, extra attack, and Indomitable as hard abilities and all others as soft.

When I think of class dipping feats I tend to prefer they avoid the hard abilities and stick to the soft abilities.

Let's a character dip into the other class without watering down the class for other players that are playing it.

 

[VenerableBede]

Sounds like the Pathfinder 2e-approach—which I'm not against! I haven't played 2e and thought that multiclassing through feats instead of taking actual new levels was weird, but more and more 3rd-party/discussed potential content for 5e/A5e seems to be taking that idea and running with it.

 

[xiphumor]

I love those feats since they're kind of like multi-classing light feats and think they should be included.

I've had discussions with my players about this as some of them prefer the feat dip as opposed to level dip option and as such we've done some homebrewing.

So when I look at classes I kind of divide class abilities into 2 categories, Hard or Soft. Now there's no set rules I use for what goes into each category, but generally I lump the abilities that really cement the class identity into the hard category and all others into the soft category.

So using the fighter as an example, for A5E I would likely consider the Maneuver Socialization, Reserves, extra attack, and Indomitable as hard abilities and all others as soft.

When I think of class dipping feats I tend to prefer they avoid the hard abilities and stick to the soft abilities.

Let's a character dip into the other class without watering down the class for other players that are playing it.

In general, I agree, but at the same time, metamagic is definitely a hard sorcerer option, and I absolutely want it available as a feat.
(Incidentally, Homebrew & Hacking 2 includes just such a feat.)

However, because wildshape is now tied to specific animals/plants, there's a part of me that thinks you could design a feat (perhaps with a level pre-requisite) that would give you access to one, low-CR wild shape for one hour and it wouldn't be too much of a sleight to the druid.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

In general, I agree, but at the same time, metamagic is definitely a hard sorcerer option, and I absolutely want it available as a feat.
(Incidentally, Homebrew & Hacking 2 includes just such a feat.)

However, because wildshape is now tied to specific animals/plants, there's a part of me that thinks you could design a feat (perhaps with a level pre-requisite) that would give you access to one, low-CR wild shape for one hour and it wouldn't be too much of a sleight to the druid.

oh yeah. there are exceptions to every weird homebrewed rule.

In regards to wildshaping. What I would do is make that a series of feats. Since Druid does have class features that kick in later you can crib slightly less powerful versions of those.

So, just spitballing here, you could say do this:

Wildshape Initiate:
You gain the ability to wildshape once per long rest. You can choose one beast or plant that you're familiar with that has a max CR equal to 1/5th your character level that you can wildshape into. You may change your known form out to another known form when you gain a new level. You cannot cast spells while wildshaped, but can maintain concentration on any spells already cast. All other aspects of wildshape are the same as a druid of your level.

Wildshape Novice:
Prerequisite: Wildshape Initiate, 5th level
You learn one additional wildshape form with a CR equal to 1/5th your character level. You can now cast any spells with a range of self or touch while wildshaped. You can wildshape one additional time per long rest.

Wildshape Expert
Prerequisite: Wildshape Initiate, 10th level
You learn one additional wildshape form with a CR equal to 1/5th your character level. You gain a +1 bonus on attacks while wildshaped and the temporary hitpoints gained from wildshaping increases to 1d6 x the creatures CR (Min of 1). You can wildshape one additional time per long rest.

Wildshape Master
Prerequisite: Wildshape Initiate, 15th level
You learn one additional wildshape form with a CR equal to 1/5th your character level. When you wildshape choose one attack mode of the form you transform into. That attack deals an additional 1d6 damage of the same type as the base attack on a hit while you're wildshaped. You can wildshape one additional time per long rest.