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<blockquote data-quote="RigaMortus" data-source="post: 693270" data-attributes="member: 1077"><p>I like Monte's Ranger as well. I think the Ranger should be an "archer" type first and foremost. They really do need to add more ranged related feats in the Core Rules. Currently there really is only one way to build an archer (PBS, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot), not counting the Cleric build of course. I'm talking about a pure woodsman type archer.</p><p></p><p>I also beleive the Paladin should get extra smites. This would be an incentive for them to go past level 6. Currently there is no real good incentive to go past level 6 as a Paladin. At least, not as far as I care. Higher HD for my mount is not that important to me. Half the time you are places the mount can't go anyway. Extra Remove Disease isn't much of an incentive either. This is just to add flavor to a Paladin, the Cleric should be Removing Disease. Better spell progression? Might as well multi into a Paladin/Cleric, you'll have a better spell allotment.</p><p></p><p>I was thinking that all of the "warrior" type classes (Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin and MAYBE Monk) should all get some sort of bonus feats, similiar to a fighter, but spread out a lot farther. And they shouldn't necessarily get them at level 1 or 2 either (to avoid the Fighter 2/Paladin 1/Ranger 1/Barbarian 1 character with 8 feats for a 5th level character). I think the feat lists should be short and include class specific feats. Paladins could choose from Divine feats, Monks could choose from hand to hand feats, Rangers could choose from archery feats, and so on.</p><p></p><p>As for Bards? 6 skill points at least. I'd even go as far to say, drop Rogues to 6 skill points and give Bards 8, but that would be too big of a change probably. Define what Bardic Knowledge can and can't help you with, better than it does now. Give some examples. Give Bards some more songs to enhance what they are good at. Here is a home brewed addition I gave introduced to my Bard player in a campaign I was running a couple years ago. This is inspired by the EverQuest Bard.</p><p></p><p>I had magical songs spread out throught the land. Kind of like spell scrolls, but they only worked for Bards. They granted special abilities when they were recited. This is pretty much how they worked (doing this from memory so I hope I get everything) and an example of a song.</p><p></p><p>Selo's Accelerendo (told ya it was EQ inspired).</p><p>Requirements - Minimum Perform RANK of 13.</p><p>Benefit: Doubles your natural base speed and the natural base speed for all your allies who can hear you sing, provided they are within 60' of you. Effects last 5 rounds after they you stop singing. If an ally moves more than 60' away from you, their speed will be doubled for 5 rounds. if they come back within 60' of you at any time, they once again get the benefits.</p><p>Activation: Perform check vs. DC 23.</p><p>Instrument: If the Bard is playing this song with a string instrument, the Bard and his allies have their base natural movement tripled.</p><p>Note: You may Take 10 on this.</p><p></p><p>Ok, hopefully I covered all my bases. As you can see, this is a song that doubles (or triples) movement. You need a minimum requirement of Perform Rank 13, which is another way of saying, this is a song for a level 9 Bard or higher. Given the ability of this spell, that doesn't seem too powerful of an ability for a level 9 Bard to have.</p><p></p><p>Next, you'll notice that the DC check for this song is 23. At the minimum requirement, that means you need to roll a 10 or better to get this song to work. Is it a coincidence that you can Take 10 with the song as well? Nope, I planned that. As you can see, when the Bard is not in combat, they can easily perform this song (by Taking 10). In combat, they are going to have to roll (as per the Take 10 rules). As a matter of fact, they have to roll every round to maintain this song (you never know when a sneeze, cough or hiccup is coming on). Failure to make said check means the song fails, much like failing a spell.</p><p></p><p>Singing was a Move-Equiv action (which left a Standard Action to fight or reposition themselves). Playing an instrument was a Full-Round Action because it took up more time and concentration. of course, this means all the Bard could do is 5 foot step. This gave the Bard a couple of options. Either sing, get the effects of the song and fight OR double the effect of the song at the cost of movement (except 5' step) and fighting. Also, the fact that different Instruments were required for the higher effects of the songs gave the Bard incentive to purchase multiple instruments and to put ranks in them as well.</p><p></p><p>Note: I had special MAGICAL instruments the Bard could find which would even further enhance the power of the songs (like quadruple speed) but we never got that far in the campaign.</p><p></p><p>A few things that aren't listed here, but were a standard with all the songs. All songs require the character to actually sing, OR play an instrument OR both (obviously one can not sing and play a flute at the same time). If you try to talk or cast a spell (which requires a verbal component) while performing a song, you would have to stop singing and thus stop the song. You can only sing each of these special songs once per day. If you fail your check or mess up, it is the same as failing to cast a spell.</p><p></p><p>Now the only thing I didn't consider at the time, is the maximum length one can sing. At the time I was allowing the party to use this to travel for 8 hours (doubling their movement all the way). In hindsight, I should have had another rule stating that the Bard can only sing for a full hour straight, then he needs to make checks to maintain his song. Checks similiar to holding your breath. Also, I didn't have any rules about if the Bard takes damage. I probably should have forced a Concentration check. But against what? The DC plus damage taken seems kind of harsh to me (that would be DC 23 + damage taken in this case).</p><p></p><p>Well, something like that is what I would impliment for the Bard. I hope, with all this info I just put out there, I didn't turn this thread into a House Rules thread. Yikes <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Well, maybe WotC can impliment something similiar to my idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RigaMortus, post: 693270, member: 1077"] I like Monte's Ranger as well. I think the Ranger should be an "archer" type first and foremost. They really do need to add more ranged related feats in the Core Rules. Currently there really is only one way to build an archer (PBS, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot), not counting the Cleric build of course. I'm talking about a pure woodsman type archer. I also beleive the Paladin should get extra smites. This would be an incentive for them to go past level 6. Currently there is no real good incentive to go past level 6 as a Paladin. At least, not as far as I care. Higher HD for my mount is not that important to me. Half the time you are places the mount can't go anyway. Extra Remove Disease isn't much of an incentive either. This is just to add flavor to a Paladin, the Cleric should be Removing Disease. Better spell progression? Might as well multi into a Paladin/Cleric, you'll have a better spell allotment. I was thinking that all of the "warrior" type classes (Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin and MAYBE Monk) should all get some sort of bonus feats, similiar to a fighter, but spread out a lot farther. And they shouldn't necessarily get them at level 1 or 2 either (to avoid the Fighter 2/Paladin 1/Ranger 1/Barbarian 1 character with 8 feats for a 5th level character). I think the feat lists should be short and include class specific feats. Paladins could choose from Divine feats, Monks could choose from hand to hand feats, Rangers could choose from archery feats, and so on. As for Bards? 6 skill points at least. I'd even go as far to say, drop Rogues to 6 skill points and give Bards 8, but that would be too big of a change probably. Define what Bardic Knowledge can and can't help you with, better than it does now. Give some examples. Give Bards some more songs to enhance what they are good at. Here is a home brewed addition I gave introduced to my Bard player in a campaign I was running a couple years ago. This is inspired by the EverQuest Bard. I had magical songs spread out throught the land. Kind of like spell scrolls, but they only worked for Bards. They granted special abilities when they were recited. This is pretty much how they worked (doing this from memory so I hope I get everything) and an example of a song. Selo's Accelerendo (told ya it was EQ inspired). Requirements - Minimum Perform RANK of 13. Benefit: Doubles your natural base speed and the natural base speed for all your allies who can hear you sing, provided they are within 60' of you. Effects last 5 rounds after they you stop singing. If an ally moves more than 60' away from you, their speed will be doubled for 5 rounds. if they come back within 60' of you at any time, they once again get the benefits. Activation: Perform check vs. DC 23. Instrument: If the Bard is playing this song with a string instrument, the Bard and his allies have their base natural movement tripled. Note: You may Take 10 on this. Ok, hopefully I covered all my bases. As you can see, this is a song that doubles (or triples) movement. You need a minimum requirement of Perform Rank 13, which is another way of saying, this is a song for a level 9 Bard or higher. Given the ability of this spell, that doesn't seem too powerful of an ability for a level 9 Bard to have. Next, you'll notice that the DC check for this song is 23. At the minimum requirement, that means you need to roll a 10 or better to get this song to work. Is it a coincidence that you can Take 10 with the song as well? Nope, I planned that. As you can see, when the Bard is not in combat, they can easily perform this song (by Taking 10). In combat, they are going to have to roll (as per the Take 10 rules). As a matter of fact, they have to roll every round to maintain this song (you never know when a sneeze, cough or hiccup is coming on). Failure to make said check means the song fails, much like failing a spell. Singing was a Move-Equiv action (which left a Standard Action to fight or reposition themselves). Playing an instrument was a Full-Round Action because it took up more time and concentration. of course, this means all the Bard could do is 5 foot step. This gave the Bard a couple of options. Either sing, get the effects of the song and fight OR double the effect of the song at the cost of movement (except 5' step) and fighting. Also, the fact that different Instruments were required for the higher effects of the songs gave the Bard incentive to purchase multiple instruments and to put ranks in them as well. Note: I had special MAGICAL instruments the Bard could find which would even further enhance the power of the songs (like quadruple speed) but we never got that far in the campaign. A few things that aren't listed here, but were a standard with all the songs. All songs require the character to actually sing, OR play an instrument OR both (obviously one can not sing and play a flute at the same time). If you try to talk or cast a spell (which requires a verbal component) while performing a song, you would have to stop singing and thus stop the song. You can only sing each of these special songs once per day. If you fail your check or mess up, it is the same as failing to cast a spell. Now the only thing I didn't consider at the time, is the maximum length one can sing. At the time I was allowing the party to use this to travel for 8 hours (doubling their movement all the way). In hindsight, I should have had another rule stating that the Bard can only sing for a full hour straight, then he needs to make checks to maintain his song. Checks similiar to holding your breath. Also, I didn't have any rules about if the Bard takes damage. I probably should have forced a Concentration check. But against what? The DC plus damage taken seems kind of harsh to me (that would be DC 23 + damage taken in this case). Well, something like that is what I would impliment for the Bard. I hope, with all this info I just put out there, I didn't turn this thread into a House Rules thread. Yikes :) Well, maybe WotC can impliment something similiar to my idea. [/QUOTE]
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