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Classic Six: The Game Inside OD&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5150212" data-attributes="member: 80487"><p>First thoughts:</p><p></p><p>I think it was probably a good move to limit clerics to only 3rd-level spells (whereas normally they would get 4th at the same time). I also appreciate that you have changed the to-hit table, whereas otherwise everyone would have ended in the same bracket. Effectively, you move the fighter up one bracket and keep the m-u back. To give <em>only</em> the fighter its normal boost, at 4th, might be another idea. The lowering of cleric final XP by 1000 is fairly minor, but another 5000 to the m-u is pretty striking.</p><p></p><p>The cleric is still pretty smashing. Be sure not to mess too much with the ratio of 25 to 1 in frequency of magic weapons fighters can wield versus those permitted clerics.</p><p></p><p>By standard multi-classing, the elf's XP requirements should be 2nd: 4,500; 3rd:9,000; 4th: 18,000; 5th: 28,000. "Close enough", I guess, but why the difference? You give elves about an 11% discount (less for 5th), but levy a 10% tariff on the little people.</p><p></p><p>If you're trying to balance them against level-limited humans, then one might consider that the original limits were scaled to humans getting up to 12th -14th level (or maybe higher, although Gygax and Kuntz apparently had levels beyond that in mind mainly for NPC villains). Setting aside the flattening of XP requirements and considering only levels, one might cut the original limits in half (to D 3, E 2/4, H 2). It's just an idea, more than anything to suggest that -- like the original designer -- one should consider the <em>effects one desires in the present context</em>.</p><p></p><p>For instance, I am pretty sure the idea in so sharply limiting halflings was to reflect the nature of <em>The Hobbit</em> in Tolkien's tale. With humans capped at 6th, the halfling is probably still "gimped" enough to be the least desirable type -- but it's more of a two-third-ling. I wonder whether that might be more just irritating and petty from the players' point of view.</p><p></p><p>Actually, the m-u might be the least desirable type. Better saves and one more spell? Granted, it's a 3rd (top) level spell, that doesn't seem like much reason to lay in another 14,000 XP over what it would have taken to reach 5th level as an elf. All along, the elf has on average more h.p., and arms and armor superior even if not enchanted -- plus a fighter's ability to use magic swords.</p><p></p><p>Without the 6th-level limit, a human m-u could hope someday truly to excel at magic -- attaining 9th level (and a 5th level spell) before an elf advancing at the same rate would reach 8th.</p><p></p><p>The AD&D rule that elves cannot be resurrected might be worth implementing, if you want to have human m-us. Another idea might be to limit elves to 4th in spell-casting as well. Oh, and you could roll back the m-u's 6th-level XP to 35,000.</p><p></p><p>I played a lot with Holmes Basic, which went up only to 3rd. So, you weren't even getting into those fireballs and lightning bolts (which I find more jarring than, e.g., the polymorph spells and others from levels 4-6) except via magic items.</p><p></p><p>Everybody's basic saves and hit chances stayed the same. A fighter with +3 per hit die for constitution, and maximum rolls on the dice, could have 33 h.p. -- between a troll's average (30) and a hill giant's (36). Sticking with d6 for monsters, the hill giant would average only 28 (max. 48).</p><p></p><p>Let fighters go to 4 hit dice, and a +3 bonus with just average rolls yields 30 points.</p><p></p><p>In any case, it was likely to be The Hill Giant. There was no need for herds or tribes of such mighty monsters (although they might exist in realms far from the fields of mortal men).</p><p></p><p>The same held for magic items. They tended to be one of a kind. Scrolls were more common, as Holmes allowed even 1st-level characters to make them. They could also invent new spells.</p><p></p><p>Also, magic often was not usable more than a few times. A wand of fireballs might do only 3 dice of damage, and only 3 or 4 times. A certain magic bridle might tame the Pegasus-equivalent, but one must seek some other means to harness the Hippogriff. A weapon might get a hefty bonus versus an individual monster, both being of the legendary status that would accrue to the monster's slayer.</p><p></p><p>Basically, it was less than usual about repeating a walk through the familiar progression of levels and accumulation of "standard" magical powers. Everything was more specific to the places and events of the campaign, the particular biographies of the heroes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5150212, member: 80487"] First thoughts: I think it was probably a good move to limit clerics to only 3rd-level spells (whereas normally they would get 4th at the same time). I also appreciate that you have changed the to-hit table, whereas otherwise everyone would have ended in the same bracket. Effectively, you move the fighter up one bracket and keep the m-u back. To give [I]only[/I] the fighter its normal boost, at 4th, might be another idea. The lowering of cleric final XP by 1000 is fairly minor, but another 5000 to the m-u is pretty striking. The cleric is still pretty smashing. Be sure not to mess too much with the ratio of 25 to 1 in frequency of magic weapons fighters can wield versus those permitted clerics. By standard multi-classing, the elf's XP requirements should be 2nd: 4,500; 3rd:9,000; 4th: 18,000; 5th: 28,000. "Close enough", I guess, but why the difference? You give elves about an 11% discount (less for 5th), but levy a 10% tariff on the little people. If you're trying to balance them against level-limited humans, then one might consider that the original limits were scaled to humans getting up to 12th -14th level (or maybe higher, although Gygax and Kuntz apparently had levels beyond that in mind mainly for NPC villains). Setting aside the flattening of XP requirements and considering only levels, one might cut the original limits in half (to D 3, E 2/4, H 2). It's just an idea, more than anything to suggest that -- like the original designer -- one should consider the [I]effects one desires in the present context[/I]. For instance, I am pretty sure the idea in so sharply limiting halflings was to reflect the nature of [I]The Hobbit[/I] in Tolkien's tale. With humans capped at 6th, the halfling is probably still "gimped" enough to be the least desirable type -- but it's more of a two-third-ling. I wonder whether that might be more just irritating and petty from the players' point of view. Actually, the m-u might be the least desirable type. Better saves and one more spell? Granted, it's a 3rd (top) level spell, that doesn't seem like much reason to lay in another 14,000 XP over what it would have taken to reach 5th level as an elf. All along, the elf has on average more h.p., and arms and armor superior even if not enchanted -- plus a fighter's ability to use magic swords. Without the 6th-level limit, a human m-u could hope someday truly to excel at magic -- attaining 9th level (and a 5th level spell) before an elf advancing at the same rate would reach 8th. The AD&D rule that elves cannot be resurrected might be worth implementing, if you want to have human m-us. Another idea might be to limit elves to 4th in spell-casting as well. Oh, and you could roll back the m-u's 6th-level XP to 35,000. I played a lot with Holmes Basic, which went up only to 3rd. So, you weren't even getting into those fireballs and lightning bolts (which I find more jarring than, e.g., the polymorph spells and others from levels 4-6) except via magic items. Everybody's basic saves and hit chances stayed the same. A fighter with +3 per hit die for constitution, and maximum rolls on the dice, could have 33 h.p. -- between a troll's average (30) and a hill giant's (36). Sticking with d6 for monsters, the hill giant would average only 28 (max. 48). Let fighters go to 4 hit dice, and a +3 bonus with just average rolls yields 30 points. In any case, it was likely to be The Hill Giant. There was no need for herds or tribes of such mighty monsters (although they might exist in realms far from the fields of mortal men). The same held for magic items. They tended to be one of a kind. Scrolls were more common, as Holmes allowed even 1st-level characters to make them. They could also invent new spells. Also, magic often was not usable more than a few times. A wand of fireballs might do only 3 dice of damage, and only 3 or 4 times. A certain magic bridle might tame the Pegasus-equivalent, but one must seek some other means to harness the Hippogriff. A weapon might get a hefty bonus versus an individual monster, both being of the legendary status that would accrue to the monster's slayer. Basically, it was less than usual about repeating a walk through the familiar progression of levels and accumulation of "standard" magical powers. Everything was more specific to the places and events of the campaign, the particular biographies of the heroes. [/QUOTE]
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