Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Combat Optimized" versus "Role-playing" -- One Dude's Perspective (looong)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 5112837" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>I completely agree with you, Antithetist, that some level of tactical combat play is basically one of the primary components of any D&D campaign. If you're not into moving a character around a battlefield and rolling d20s alot, then D&D isn't really the best game to be playing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>I don't know if my treatise/essay/insanely-long-whatever-the-heck-it-was (LOL) was written as a critique of DM styles so much as it was trying to lay bare an idea that extolling "extreme combat balance" in a given rule system--any rule system--in some ways creates an inverse number of viable, playable character types. The more a character is "forced" to fall into a specific range of actions/categories/variables, the less that character will have room for "play" within the realm of developing a more "real" mechanical representation of the player's vision. </p><p></p><p>The other reason I think I wrote what I did was because I've heard numerous times that a "balanced combat mechanic inherently promotes better roleplaying," and I'm not sure that's a true statement. To some degree, it's probably a losing battle of semantics, because what I consider to be "better roleplaying" is going to be considerably different than what someone else thinks it is. </p><p></p><p>So maybe that's the real question here--does a paradigm of "balanced combat" inherently create a better experience? </p><p></p><p>I think FireLance's comment is spot on as well--what is the "permissable range" of deviation from ultra min/maxing? Certainly it's a group-level decision, since every group dynamic will view this differently.....but to a certain degree, the fact that I feel the need to defend not min/maxing every ounce of my stat sheet, because maybe I want to try out a specific character concept, says something telling about the D&D system as a whole--across multiple editions. </p><p></p><p>I suppose I'm in the minority when I say that I find combat in pen-and-paper RPGs to be the least compelling aspect of gameplay. That's not to say that it's not compelling AT ALL, or that it doesn't involve interesting tactics, or that I don't derive some enjoyment from it, only that to me, it's the least compelling of all of the available potential actions a character can take. </p><p></p><p>The other question is--does excessive non-combat rules codification impinge on non-combat activity the same way? I know a lot of folks seemed to think that the 3.x skill system actually hindered real "role-playing," because it codified character actions to a die roll. I don't think I ever saw it that way, based on my play style, but I know a lot of people complain about the "I roll a diplomacy check, is the baron happy now?" type of actions. </p><p></p><p>Interesting stuff so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 5112837, member: 85870"] I completely agree with you, Antithetist, that some level of tactical combat play is basically one of the primary components of any D&D campaign. If you're not into moving a character around a battlefield and rolling d20s alot, then D&D isn't really the best game to be playing. :) I don't know if my treatise/essay/insanely-long-whatever-the-heck-it-was (LOL) was written as a critique of DM styles so much as it was trying to lay bare an idea that extolling "extreme combat balance" in a given rule system--any rule system--in some ways creates an inverse number of viable, playable character types. The more a character is "forced" to fall into a specific range of actions/categories/variables, the less that character will have room for "play" within the realm of developing a more "real" mechanical representation of the player's vision. The other reason I think I wrote what I did was because I've heard numerous times that a "balanced combat mechanic inherently promotes better roleplaying," and I'm not sure that's a true statement. To some degree, it's probably a losing battle of semantics, because what I consider to be "better roleplaying" is going to be considerably different than what someone else thinks it is. So maybe that's the real question here--does a paradigm of "balanced combat" inherently create a better experience? I think FireLance's comment is spot on as well--what is the "permissable range" of deviation from ultra min/maxing? Certainly it's a group-level decision, since every group dynamic will view this differently.....but to a certain degree, the fact that I feel the need to defend not min/maxing every ounce of my stat sheet, because maybe I want to try out a specific character concept, says something telling about the D&D system as a whole--across multiple editions. I suppose I'm in the minority when I say that I find combat in pen-and-paper RPGs to be the least compelling aspect of gameplay. That's not to say that it's not compelling AT ALL, or that it doesn't involve interesting tactics, or that I don't derive some enjoyment from it, only that to me, it's the least compelling of all of the available potential actions a character can take. The other question is--does excessive non-combat rules codification impinge on non-combat activity the same way? I know a lot of folks seemed to think that the 3.x skill system actually hindered real "role-playing," because it codified character actions to a die roll. I don't think I ever saw it that way, based on my play style, but I know a lot of people complain about the "I roll a diplomacy check, is the baron happy now?" type of actions. Interesting stuff so far. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Combat Optimized" versus "Role-playing" -- One Dude's Perspective (looong)
Top