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'Combo' Spells to increase action economy, bypass cocentration
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7295726" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>Usually, I'd agree. However, in this case, the rule mechanic has natural 'in game' ramifications that would be limits on the spellcasters that they'd seek to master. In many, but no all, ways - magic is like technology. The natural trend in technology is to figure out how to get more out of less. More bang for the buck. This is taking the same approach we have in technology and returning it back to magic.This is where I started as well, but rapidly decided I'd taken a wrong turn. I do not think a general rule works as there are different synergies in play, and you have to balance and tweak the mechanics to make the spells work together (matching durations, altering targeting rules, etc...)</p><p></p><p>For example, let's say that we want to combine two fireballs. What level would you make a spell that allows you to cast two fireballs at once?</p><p></p><p>To me, it depends upon the mechanics. We we allow them to overlap? Two third level spells that each deal 8d6 damage is similar to one spell that deals 16d6 if we allow both fireballs to target the same creatures. Delayed Blast Fireball and Sunburst each deal 12d6 at 7th and 8th levels (with other benefits), so it is likely on par with a 7th or 8th level spell. On the other hand, if we don't allow them to overlap each other, but instead are just duplicating the size of the fireball (while still dealing no more than 8d6 to a target), it is probably something that would not warrant more than a 1 level increase in spell casting level.</p><p></p><p>If I want to combine fly and improved invisibility, I am combining spells with two different durations. One is 10 minutes, the other is 1 minute. If the combined spell lasts 10 minutes, that is a huge increase in the efficiency of the improved invisibility. If it is limited to 1 minute, the fly's utility is limited from a standard fly spell. I'd argue that if you allow both spells to combine and target only the caster, a version with a 1 minute duration would be 5th or 6th level, while allowing a 10 minute duration would be at least 7th level as it could last several combats.</p><p></p><p>I'd rather figure out what classic spell combinations are missing from the current game, build spells that combine their effects, and then balance those spells.</p><p></p><p>So - once again - what classic combinations of spells from the 3E and earlier era do you miss?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 7295726, member: 2629"] Usually, I'd agree. However, in this case, the rule mechanic has natural 'in game' ramifications that would be limits on the spellcasters that they'd seek to master. In many, but no all, ways - magic is like technology. The natural trend in technology is to figure out how to get more out of less. More bang for the buck. This is taking the same approach we have in technology and returning it back to magic.This is where I started as well, but rapidly decided I'd taken a wrong turn. I do not think a general rule works as there are different synergies in play, and you have to balance and tweak the mechanics to make the spells work together (matching durations, altering targeting rules, etc...) For example, let's say that we want to combine two fireballs. What level would you make a spell that allows you to cast two fireballs at once? To me, it depends upon the mechanics. We we allow them to overlap? Two third level spells that each deal 8d6 damage is similar to one spell that deals 16d6 if we allow both fireballs to target the same creatures. Delayed Blast Fireball and Sunburst each deal 12d6 at 7th and 8th levels (with other benefits), so it is likely on par with a 7th or 8th level spell. On the other hand, if we don't allow them to overlap each other, but instead are just duplicating the size of the fireball (while still dealing no more than 8d6 to a target), it is probably something that would not warrant more than a 1 level increase in spell casting level. If I want to combine fly and improved invisibility, I am combining spells with two different durations. One is 10 minutes, the other is 1 minute. If the combined spell lasts 10 minutes, that is a huge increase in the efficiency of the improved invisibility. If it is limited to 1 minute, the fly's utility is limited from a standard fly spell. I'd argue that if you allow both spells to combine and target only the caster, a version with a 1 minute duration would be 5th or 6th level, while allowing a 10 minute duration would be at least 7th level as it could last several combats. I'd rather figure out what classic spell combinations are missing from the current game, build spells that combine their effects, and then balance those spells. So - once again - what classic combinations of spells from the 3E and earlier era do you miss? [/QUOTE]
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