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Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XI: Rangers)
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8811795" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>Because it's a meta-currency used to balance distinct fantastical mechanics widgets, so it has limiting mechanics.</p><p></p><p>The somatic components are not specified, nor are any verbal components. As some quick examples, the somatic component of Alarm can simply be the process of unwinding the silver wire around the area, or it can be more complex and involve setting something like an alarm trap, which is imbued with magic during that process. No "hand-jive" (a term which I really really hate in this context. I think we can discuss this stuff without using loaded phrases that dismiss the validity of a thing you don't happen to prefer) needed. </p><p></p><p>Somatic components do not necessitate waving your hands around like Doctor Strange, which is the only thing I can imagine you mean by "hand-jive".</p><p></p><p>The existing ability that we have been discussing, that Green Arrow has never done the same thing as, and never will unless they make him magical. </p><p>If they're firing a hundred arrows or even just a couple dozen in a few seconds, they are doing something that goes beyond the realm of even Legolas heroic action, into the profoundly impossible, and thus magical.</p><p></p><p>They aren't. The game has things that are very supernatural that aren't spells. Frankly, I don't see any reason why some of it isn't a spell. It's not like every feature that references a spell has to use spell slots to do so, nor is it like every feature that uses spell slots does so via spells.</p><p></p><p>I'm having trouble parsing this to find a thing I can recognize as potentially problematic. </p><p></p><p>Seriously, does not compute. What is the issue? You're describing how the system works, and then saying it's a problem, but you aren't laying out what about the above is bad. <em>Why</em> is "spellcasting uses the same mechanical framework" a problem? </p><p></p><p>Like you list the artificer, so I'm guessing you would completely disregard the narrative impact of casting via tools and the encouragement to treat this as making things to create the spell effect, because the end result is the same and it still costs a spell slot, and whatever else? </p><p></p><p>I don't believe that there is anything remotely problematic about that, and it's especially weird for me as someone who loves 4e DnD to see this objection when it is literally just 4e powers with different names. It's the same complaint as the "powers are all just spells renamed, everyone does the same thing", and I found it baffling then as now. </p><p></p><p>The 5e Ranger cannot be played like a wizard. The two classes have too little in common, and their basic actions are dramatically different, as are their specific lists of distinct mechanical abilities. The fact they both references spells and spell slots is about as meaningful as the fact they both get PB increases at the same levels, or that they both attack with a d20+stat+PB against AC when they make an attack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 8811795, member: 6704184"] Because it's a meta-currency used to balance distinct fantastical mechanics widgets, so it has limiting mechanics. The somatic components are not specified, nor are any verbal components. As some quick examples, the somatic component of Alarm can simply be the process of unwinding the silver wire around the area, or it can be more complex and involve setting something like an alarm trap, which is imbued with magic during that process. No "hand-jive" (a term which I really really hate in this context. I think we can discuss this stuff without using loaded phrases that dismiss the validity of a thing you don't happen to prefer) needed. Somatic components do not necessitate waving your hands around like Doctor Strange, which is the only thing I can imagine you mean by "hand-jive". The existing ability that we have been discussing, that Green Arrow has never done the same thing as, and never will unless they make him magical. If they're firing a hundred arrows or even just a couple dozen in a few seconds, they are doing something that goes beyond the realm of even Legolas heroic action, into the profoundly impossible, and thus magical. They aren't. The game has things that are very supernatural that aren't spells. Frankly, I don't see any reason why some of it isn't a spell. It's not like every feature that references a spell has to use spell slots to do so, nor is it like every feature that uses spell slots does so via spells. I'm having trouble parsing this to find a thing I can recognize as potentially problematic. Seriously, does not compute. What is the issue? You're describing how the system works, and then saying it's a problem, but you aren't laying out what about the above is bad. [I]Why[/I] is "spellcasting uses the same mechanical framework" a problem? Like you list the artificer, so I'm guessing you would completely disregard the narrative impact of casting via tools and the encouragement to treat this as making things to create the spell effect, because the end result is the same and it still costs a spell slot, and whatever else? I don't believe that there is anything remotely problematic about that, and it's especially weird for me as someone who loves 4e DnD to see this objection when it is literally just 4e powers with different names. It's the same complaint as the "powers are all just spells renamed, everyone does the same thing", and I found it baffling then as now. The 5e Ranger cannot be played like a wizard. The two classes have too little in common, and their basic actions are dramatically different, as are their specific lists of distinct mechanical abilities. The fact they both references spells and spell slots is about as meaningful as the fact they both get PB increases at the same levels, or that they both attack with a d20+stat+PB against AC when they make an attack. [/QUOTE]
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