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Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XI: Rangers)
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8811873" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I doubt a response to any other part of this would be productive, but I felt I should respond to this.</p><p></p><p>Powers are <em>actually generic</em>. They literally correspond to <em>all possible pre-defined actions</em>. If an action is pre-defined, it's a power. There is an exact, one-to-one correspondence between "is a predefined action" and "is a power." Every pre-defined action is a power, down to even <em>basic attacks</em>, and every power is a pre-defined action.</p><p></p><p>Spells are <strong>not</strong> the end-all, be-all of pre-defined actions. They are significantly more limited than that, in numerous ways, which you have repeatedly and blithely dismissed with less than a full sentence. Those limitations are the problem, and your refusal to even momentarily consider them is a significant stumbling block for having any kind of conversation here.</p><p></p><p>Edit: One other response.</p><p></p><p>I listed the artificer because <em>absorb elements</em> is an artificer spell--as well as being a spell on the class list of every other class I mentioned. The only reason I listed those classes is because they are the classes which can cast <em>absorb elements</em>, which just happens to be the alphabetically first 1st-level spell from the ranger spell list (and most lists it's on, since it starts with "ab.") There was no further motive than to note that this spell effect is 100% identical for all of these classes that cast it, and the slots used for it are 100% fungible.</p><p></p><p>However, in this case, you are mistaken. While artificers do "cast through tools," <em>absorb elements</em> is not an M spell, and thus is not cast that way. The artificer's tools are not involved. It <em>does</em> have somatic components though, which are described thusly: "Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures." "Forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures" that can be done single-handed. What else should I be calling it? (And no, I <em>don't</em> consider that an interesting or meaningful distinction from "cast through spell focus," which is what every 5e spellcaster does with M spells.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Via supernatural abilities which are not spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Via supernatural abilities which are not spells. Like how Lay On Hands, Song of Rest, Inspiration Dice, Channel Divinity, and Ki are supernatural abilities which are not spells, though they may sometimes interact with spell mechanics (e.g. that Cleric variant CD that restores a spell slot or certain Monk actions which allow you to cast spells by spending Ki.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Supernatural abilities which are not spells. Same as several other classes which have supernatural abilities that are not spells, and thus cannot be used by Fighters.</p><p></p><p>I am dead serious. The supernatural <em>should not</em> be shoehorned into "spells and only spells."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8811873, member: 6790260"] I doubt a response to any other part of this would be productive, but I felt I should respond to this. Powers are [I]actually generic[/I]. They literally correspond to [I]all possible pre-defined actions[/I]. If an action is pre-defined, it's a power. There is an exact, one-to-one correspondence between "is a predefined action" and "is a power." Every pre-defined action is a power, down to even [I]basic attacks[/I], and every power is a pre-defined action. Spells are [B]not[/B] the end-all, be-all of pre-defined actions. They are significantly more limited than that, in numerous ways, which you have repeatedly and blithely dismissed with less than a full sentence. Those limitations are the problem, and your refusal to even momentarily consider them is a significant stumbling block for having any kind of conversation here. Edit: One other response. I listed the artificer because [I]absorb elements[/I] is an artificer spell--as well as being a spell on the class list of every other class I mentioned. The only reason I listed those classes is because they are the classes which can cast [I]absorb elements[/I], which just happens to be the alphabetically first 1st-level spell from the ranger spell list (and most lists it's on, since it starts with "ab.") There was no further motive than to note that this spell effect is 100% identical for all of these classes that cast it, and the slots used for it are 100% fungible. However, in this case, you are mistaken. While artificers do "cast through tools," [I]absorb elements[/I] is not an M spell, and thus is not cast that way. The artificer's tools are not involved. It [I]does[/I] have somatic components though, which are described thusly: "Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures." "Forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures" that can be done single-handed. What else should I be calling it? (And no, I [I]don't[/I] consider that an interesting or meaningful distinction from "cast through spell focus," which is what every 5e spellcaster does with M spells.) Via supernatural abilities which are not spells. Via supernatural abilities which are not spells. Like how Lay On Hands, Song of Rest, Inspiration Dice, Channel Divinity, and Ki are supernatural abilities which are not spells, though they may sometimes interact with spell mechanics (e.g. that Cleric variant CD that restores a spell slot or certain Monk actions which allow you to cast spells by spending Ki.) Supernatural abilities which are not spells. Same as several other classes which have supernatural abilities that are not spells, and thus cannot be used by Fighters. I am dead serious. The supernatural [I]should not[/I] be shoehorned into "spells and only spells." [/QUOTE]
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