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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 2467567" data-attributes="member: 2020"><p>KARSUS'S AVATAR, 3rd Edition</p><p> 12TH LEVEL</p><p> Range: Self - Area of Effect: Self - Duration: Permanent (see below)</p><p> Casting Time: Varies from one full round to a lot of time - Saving Throw: None</p><p></p><p> 'JETSON: YOU'RE FIRED.'</p><p> Ever see the Jetsons? That was Spacely Sprocket's favorite line.</p><p> It seems Karsus must have gotten the same idea, for one day he went up to Mystryl, and said: MYSTRYL, YOU'RE FIRED.</p><p> And she was. And Karsus became the Deity of Magic. </p><p> Unfortunately, Karsus's Avatar, while giving one an automatic boast in the Celestial Beaucracy, didn't also provide for the needed College Education requisite for the new job.</p><p> Because it didn't, Karsus had a few problems with being in his new position, with a few minor consequences: he lost control of the Weave, Mystryl killed him to save Realmspace, Mystryl struck at the Weave and killed herself to stop the Weave from disintegrating and destroying Realmspace, and 1600 years later the Weave is still messed up. And of course countless millions died, whole civilizations collapsed, and a general mess was made.</p><p></p><p> But what if ... Karsus's Avatar had provided the needed College Education? What then?</p><p> Well, I see two possible scenarios. Here's the brief one:</p><p></p><p> Karsus: I am now the supreme deity of Realmspace. I shall cut off all magic to the other deities, and reign as the One Deity. And all shall do my bidding, and I shall be Lord of Reality!</p><p> (tap, tap, tap)</p><p> Lord Ao: Uh, Karsus ... you now serve me. You're my servant. You must take your place in the Pantheon, as the other deities do.</p><p> Karsus: I shall do as I please. I am supreme! Nobody tells me what to do.</p><p> Lord Ao: (takes Karsus gently by the arm) Karsus, you require an Attitude Adjustment.</p><p> Lord Ao: (leads Karsus into a building made of Divine Steel, and shuts the door)</p><p></p><p> (silence)</p><p></p><p> WHAM!</p><p></p><p> (Ao leaves the now wrecked and smoking building, whistling)</p><p></p><p> Lord Ao: Attitude Adjustment completed.</p><p> Karsus, from within, faintly: Ow ...</p><p></p><p> -</p><p></p><p> Now we come to the Long Version of Karsus's Avatar. The one where any Player Character could obtain Karsus's Avatar, and cast it on herself or anyone else.</p><p> The implications spell an end to the Campaign World as it was created, and the beginning of something New and Different.</p><p></p><p> Player Character One, to Mystra: MYSTRA, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Player Character Two, after the spell is cast on him: HELM, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Evil Player Character Three: BANE, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Neutral PC 4: SILVANUS, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Paladin PC 5: TORM, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Thief PC 6: MASK, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p> Sadistic PC 7: LOVIATAR, YOU'RE FIRED!</p><p></p><p> Afterwards, of course, Mystra, Helm, Bane, Silvanus, Torm, Mask, and Loviatar go on a picket strike, carrying signs reading such things as: Deities have rights too!: Send the Scabs to Sigil!; Justice for the hard working Divine!; We deserve rights like any Mortal!, and so on.</p><p> But it won't do any good, since the Player Characters are now the supreme powers of the Campaign World. They have the dreaded Carte Blanche (see my thread on Carte Blanche, if you can find the ghastly thing ...) and can rearrange reality, the world, it's geography, it's people, and everything else, as they please!</p><p></p><p> And THEN ...</p><p></p><p> Well, if the Player Characters can pull this stunt, then all the Non-Player Characters can do it too. And, the Player Characters cannot stop this from happening, since their initial portfolios will not include all of Realmspace, but only the immediate FR Setting (see below)</p><p></p><p> And then the real fun will start.</p><p></p><p> The Deities of the Forgotten Realms (PC or otherwise) only control the ... Forgotten Realms. They do not control the Shining South, the Old Empires, Raurin, or the Hordelands, much less Zakhara, Kara-Tur, Maztica, other continents, or anywhere in the oceans. Obviously, they do not control any of the other planets, or Wildspace itself. Of course, they don't control the non-humans, and there are literally thousands of non-human deities to contend with.</p><p> The PC party, now a group of deities compliments of Karsus's Avatar, must not only contend with their fellow FR deities, but must contend with all those other deities. PCs being PCs, they will want to take over and control everything, and all those other deities will tell them what's what: those other places are THEIR turf, and the PCs had better stay out, or else!</p><p> </p><p> But, eventually, other PCs and various NPCs will use Karsus's Avatar to fire all those other deities, by the thousands, take their place and ... still tell the Player Character deities in question to keep their noses out of affairs that don't concern them.</p><p></p><p> Then, more PCs and yet more NPCs will fire those NPCs, and take their place. Meanwhile, the original deities of the Forgotten Realms will try to fire the original PCs with their own Karsus's Avatar spells, and other PCs will use Karsus's Avatar on the PCs, and NPCs will try Karsus's Avatar on the PCs ... and then, I guess, the PCs - having been fired from their new celestial jobs - will use Karsus's Avatar ... to refire the original Deities, PCs, and NPCs who took their jobs. Of course, those PCs, NPCs, and original deities will use Karsus's Avatar back, fire the PCs, then the PCs will fire them, then the NPCs will fire them, and then ...</p><p></p><p> The whole of Realmspace will become broken up into tiny Enclaves, in which one set of deities, or perhaps only a single deity, rules. And in those areas, their rules will prevail ... but in other areas, other rules will prevail ... and thus there will be one set of rules for EVERY little Enclave and Deity's Realm, across the whole of Realmspace. Reality will be splintered into thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of splinter Realities, dictated by local deities, deities with more influence that tell local deities what to do, and bigger deities yet that command fear among them, and so on.</p><p> The situation will resemble the bizarre world detailed in the Flux and Anchor books, where every Magelord is a deity, and the areas between Magelands are no-man's lands contested by everyone.</p><p></p><p> It is even possible the fundamental core Realities of Realmspace will be overturned, at least in some locales, depending on how powerful the PCs become, or which deity they fire. For example, Mystra was supposed to run magic across Realmspace, but now there is Shar who competes with her, and there was originally Selune, and every elf knows it is really Sehanine Moonbow who runs the magical show, and all the drow know Lolth is supreme, and the orcs know Grummsh runs all magic and is all powerful, and the dwarves know Moradin is supreme, and ... well, let's just say it's going to be messy. Attempting to become one supreme deity, in hopes of conquering all the others - because the old books say that one deity could and should become supreme - might or might not work out.</p><p> Likewise, such fundamentals as gravity, height, width, length, the existence of the sun, the existence of the Crystal Sphere, the existence of the Phlogiston, might be altered, either locally or Realmspace-wide, or fluctuate back and forth from one reality to another. Alternate Realities might crash the scene, beings and dimensions from strange and bizarre corners of the Multiverse might be pulled in, Ravenloft might be pulled in and itself twisted into new and different realities (whether the Mists like it or not ... even THEY will have to bow to 12th level magic), high technology may or may not manifest, may or may not work, or may work in drastically altered ways. It is even possible the Outer, Inner, and Elemental Planes might be merged or partially merged with parts of Realmspace, with the consequences of such mergings left to the imagination of someone besides me.</p><p> It is even possible that other Crystal Spheres, such as Greyspace or Krynnspace, could be sucked into this fiasco, becoming partially merged with Realmspace (to some reality within Realmpspace) in which case Krynn might become a part of Toril, or a moon of Toril, or vice versa, or Ansalon might become another continent of Toril, or vice versa, or Greyhawk City and Waterdeep might become the new Twin Cities, or ... </p><p> Whatever the Player Characters can think up, just might happen.</p><p></p><p> The ONLY thing that might stop this shenanigens and put things back the way they were is if a race capable of 12th level magic that employs it to protect and preserve Fundamental Reality (such as the taraakians) shows up and forcibly restores the old order. And, of course, even then there will be a terrible war as PCs and NPCs alike - happy in their new celestial roles as deities - are not going to take an attempt to return things to the old ways lying down!</p><p></p><p> Whether this scenario will be any fun is a good question, since no D&D game I've ever been in has ever remotely resembled such chaos. Perhaps it will be fun. Perhaps it won't. But it WILL be new and different ... and it will go on being new and different, as thousands upon thousands of archwizards of every race, creed, alignment, and gender use Karsus's Avatar to fire the current deities and take their place. Then thousands upon thousands of displaced dieties will fight back. And thousands upon thousands of newcomers will get into the mess. And countless new 12th level spells will be dreamed up and created, so that each and every archwizard can fire and avoid being fired, by assorted other PCs, NPCs, deities, displaced deities, bizarre monsters summoned from impossible dimensions, the irate Mists of Ravenloft, the ill effects of Planes, Crystal Spheres, and different realities merging or partially merging, the evolution of high technology and super technology, and the intervention of races like the taraakians who - for the sake of the Multiverse - want the insanity brought to a halt. </p><p></p><p> I personally believe Lord Ao would tolerate such a mess for about 5 minutes, then proceed to nuke Realmspace from Orbit.</p><p> But then, if you are going to allow Karsus's Avatar, you might as well do away with Lord Ao altogether, and give your players Carte Blanche. You gave it to them anyways, when you allowed them to cast Karsus's Avatar!</p><p></p><p> After all, if your PCs use Karsus's Avatar to fire Mystra and take her place, what is to prevent them from developing a 13th level spell called Ao's Avatar, where they can fire Lord Ao himself, and then ...</p><p></p><p> -</p><p></p><p> To all conservative DMs who scoff at the above, you should know that the above ALMOST HAPPENED in Official Canon! At least, it almost did if you extrapolate what would have happened, had Karsus been successful.</p><p> If Karsus had waited a little bit longer, until his spell conferred not only divine status, but the knowledge required to run the portfolio of that deity as well, he would have SUCCESSFULLY taken Mystryl's place.</p><p> Then, other archwizards of Netheril would have copied Karsus. But, seeing that Karsus had to obey Lord Ao (just as Mystryl had to) they would have Worldwalked away to hapless Crystal Spheres and Realities where no equivalent of Lord Ao existed. This would have included the Crystal Spheres containing Aebrinis, Athas, Krynn, and Oerth, the demiplane of Ravenloft, and the city of Sigil, for starters, and the list would have gone on and on. </p><p> There, those archwizards would have proceeded to use Karsus's Avatar to overthrow the current deities and take their place. </p><p> Goodbye Paladine and Takhisis. Goodbye Heironeous and Hextor. Goodbye the Lady of Pain. Goodbye Odin and the Norse, goodbye Zeus and Mount Olympus, goodbye all the Pantheons in the official books and d20 books as well. Goodbye Corellon Larethian and Lolth. Goodbye Varak the Destroyer and Grummsh the One-Eyed. Goodbye Yolanda and Moradin. Goodbye Io. Even in Realmspace, despite Lord Ao's influence, chaos would have ensued as all the deities were replaced repeatedly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 2467567, member: 2020"] KARSUS'S AVATAR, 3rd Edition 12TH LEVEL Range: Self - Area of Effect: Self - Duration: Permanent (see below) Casting Time: Varies from one full round to a lot of time - Saving Throw: None 'JETSON: YOU'RE FIRED.' Ever see the Jetsons? That was Spacely Sprocket's favorite line. It seems Karsus must have gotten the same idea, for one day he went up to Mystryl, and said: MYSTRYL, YOU'RE FIRED. And she was. And Karsus became the Deity of Magic. Unfortunately, Karsus's Avatar, while giving one an automatic boast in the Celestial Beaucracy, didn't also provide for the needed College Education requisite for the new job. Because it didn't, Karsus had a few problems with being in his new position, with a few minor consequences: he lost control of the Weave, Mystryl killed him to save Realmspace, Mystryl struck at the Weave and killed herself to stop the Weave from disintegrating and destroying Realmspace, and 1600 years later the Weave is still messed up. And of course countless millions died, whole civilizations collapsed, and a general mess was made. But what if ... Karsus's Avatar had provided the needed College Education? What then? Well, I see two possible scenarios. Here's the brief one: Karsus: I am now the supreme deity of Realmspace. I shall cut off all magic to the other deities, and reign as the One Deity. And all shall do my bidding, and I shall be Lord of Reality! (tap, tap, tap) Lord Ao: Uh, Karsus ... you now serve me. You're my servant. You must take your place in the Pantheon, as the other deities do. Karsus: I shall do as I please. I am supreme! Nobody tells me what to do. Lord Ao: (takes Karsus gently by the arm) Karsus, you require an Attitude Adjustment. Lord Ao: (leads Karsus into a building made of Divine Steel, and shuts the door) (silence) WHAM! (Ao leaves the now wrecked and smoking building, whistling) Lord Ao: Attitude Adjustment completed. Karsus, from within, faintly: Ow ... - Now we come to the Long Version of Karsus's Avatar. The one where any Player Character could obtain Karsus's Avatar, and cast it on herself or anyone else. The implications spell an end to the Campaign World as it was created, and the beginning of something New and Different. Player Character One, to Mystra: MYSTRA, YOU'RE FIRED! Player Character Two, after the spell is cast on him: HELM, YOU'RE FIRED! Evil Player Character Three: BANE, YOU'RE FIRED! Neutral PC 4: SILVANUS, YOU'RE FIRED! Paladin PC 5: TORM, YOU'RE FIRED! Thief PC 6: MASK, YOU'RE FIRED! Sadistic PC 7: LOVIATAR, YOU'RE FIRED! Afterwards, of course, Mystra, Helm, Bane, Silvanus, Torm, Mask, and Loviatar go on a picket strike, carrying signs reading such things as: Deities have rights too!: Send the Scabs to Sigil!; Justice for the hard working Divine!; We deserve rights like any Mortal!, and so on. But it won't do any good, since the Player Characters are now the supreme powers of the Campaign World. They have the dreaded Carte Blanche (see my thread on Carte Blanche, if you can find the ghastly thing ...) and can rearrange reality, the world, it's geography, it's people, and everything else, as they please! And THEN ... Well, if the Player Characters can pull this stunt, then all the Non-Player Characters can do it too. And, the Player Characters cannot stop this from happening, since their initial portfolios will not include all of Realmspace, but only the immediate FR Setting (see below) And then the real fun will start. The Deities of the Forgotten Realms (PC or otherwise) only control the ... Forgotten Realms. They do not control the Shining South, the Old Empires, Raurin, or the Hordelands, much less Zakhara, Kara-Tur, Maztica, other continents, or anywhere in the oceans. Obviously, they do not control any of the other planets, or Wildspace itself. Of course, they don't control the non-humans, and there are literally thousands of non-human deities to contend with. The PC party, now a group of deities compliments of Karsus's Avatar, must not only contend with their fellow FR deities, but must contend with all those other deities. PCs being PCs, they will want to take over and control everything, and all those other deities will tell them what's what: those other places are THEIR turf, and the PCs had better stay out, or else! But, eventually, other PCs and various NPCs will use Karsus's Avatar to fire all those other deities, by the thousands, take their place and ... still tell the Player Character deities in question to keep their noses out of affairs that don't concern them. Then, more PCs and yet more NPCs will fire those NPCs, and take their place. Meanwhile, the original deities of the Forgotten Realms will try to fire the original PCs with their own Karsus's Avatar spells, and other PCs will use Karsus's Avatar on the PCs, and NPCs will try Karsus's Avatar on the PCs ... and then, I guess, the PCs - having been fired from their new celestial jobs - will use Karsus's Avatar ... to refire the original Deities, PCs, and NPCs who took their jobs. Of course, those PCs, NPCs, and original deities will use Karsus's Avatar back, fire the PCs, then the PCs will fire them, then the NPCs will fire them, and then ... The whole of Realmspace will become broken up into tiny Enclaves, in which one set of deities, or perhaps only a single deity, rules. And in those areas, their rules will prevail ... but in other areas, other rules will prevail ... and thus there will be one set of rules for EVERY little Enclave and Deity's Realm, across the whole of Realmspace. Reality will be splintered into thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of splinter Realities, dictated by local deities, deities with more influence that tell local deities what to do, and bigger deities yet that command fear among them, and so on. The situation will resemble the bizarre world detailed in the Flux and Anchor books, where every Magelord is a deity, and the areas between Magelands are no-man's lands contested by everyone. It is even possible the fundamental core Realities of Realmspace will be overturned, at least in some locales, depending on how powerful the PCs become, or which deity they fire. For example, Mystra was supposed to run magic across Realmspace, but now there is Shar who competes with her, and there was originally Selune, and every elf knows it is really Sehanine Moonbow who runs the magical show, and all the drow know Lolth is supreme, and the orcs know Grummsh runs all magic and is all powerful, and the dwarves know Moradin is supreme, and ... well, let's just say it's going to be messy. Attempting to become one supreme deity, in hopes of conquering all the others - because the old books say that one deity could and should become supreme - might or might not work out. Likewise, such fundamentals as gravity, height, width, length, the existence of the sun, the existence of the Crystal Sphere, the existence of the Phlogiston, might be altered, either locally or Realmspace-wide, or fluctuate back and forth from one reality to another. Alternate Realities might crash the scene, beings and dimensions from strange and bizarre corners of the Multiverse might be pulled in, Ravenloft might be pulled in and itself twisted into new and different realities (whether the Mists like it or not ... even THEY will have to bow to 12th level magic), high technology may or may not manifest, may or may not work, or may work in drastically altered ways. It is even possible the Outer, Inner, and Elemental Planes might be merged or partially merged with parts of Realmspace, with the consequences of such mergings left to the imagination of someone besides me. It is even possible that other Crystal Spheres, such as Greyspace or Krynnspace, could be sucked into this fiasco, becoming partially merged with Realmspace (to some reality within Realmpspace) in which case Krynn might become a part of Toril, or a moon of Toril, or vice versa, or Ansalon might become another continent of Toril, or vice versa, or Greyhawk City and Waterdeep might become the new Twin Cities, or ... Whatever the Player Characters can think up, just might happen. The ONLY thing that might stop this shenanigens and put things back the way they were is if a race capable of 12th level magic that employs it to protect and preserve Fundamental Reality (such as the taraakians) shows up and forcibly restores the old order. And, of course, even then there will be a terrible war as PCs and NPCs alike - happy in their new celestial roles as deities - are not going to take an attempt to return things to the old ways lying down! Whether this scenario will be any fun is a good question, since no D&D game I've ever been in has ever remotely resembled such chaos. Perhaps it will be fun. Perhaps it won't. But it WILL be new and different ... and it will go on being new and different, as thousands upon thousands of archwizards of every race, creed, alignment, and gender use Karsus's Avatar to fire the current deities and take their place. Then thousands upon thousands of displaced dieties will fight back. And thousands upon thousands of newcomers will get into the mess. And countless new 12th level spells will be dreamed up and created, so that each and every archwizard can fire and avoid being fired, by assorted other PCs, NPCs, deities, displaced deities, bizarre monsters summoned from impossible dimensions, the irate Mists of Ravenloft, the ill effects of Planes, Crystal Spheres, and different realities merging or partially merging, the evolution of high technology and super technology, and the intervention of races like the taraakians who - for the sake of the Multiverse - want the insanity brought to a halt. I personally believe Lord Ao would tolerate such a mess for about 5 minutes, then proceed to nuke Realmspace from Orbit. But then, if you are going to allow Karsus's Avatar, you might as well do away with Lord Ao altogether, and give your players Carte Blanche. You gave it to them anyways, when you allowed them to cast Karsus's Avatar! After all, if your PCs use Karsus's Avatar to fire Mystra and take her place, what is to prevent them from developing a 13th level spell called Ao's Avatar, where they can fire Lord Ao himself, and then ... - To all conservative DMs who scoff at the above, you should know that the above ALMOST HAPPENED in Official Canon! At least, it almost did if you extrapolate what would have happened, had Karsus been successful. If Karsus had waited a little bit longer, until his spell conferred not only divine status, but the knowledge required to run the portfolio of that deity as well, he would have SUCCESSFULLY taken Mystryl's place. Then, other archwizards of Netheril would have copied Karsus. But, seeing that Karsus had to obey Lord Ao (just as Mystryl had to) they would have Worldwalked away to hapless Crystal Spheres and Realities where no equivalent of Lord Ao existed. This would have included the Crystal Spheres containing Aebrinis, Athas, Krynn, and Oerth, the demiplane of Ravenloft, and the city of Sigil, for starters, and the list would have gone on and on. There, those archwizards would have proceeded to use Karsus's Avatar to overthrow the current deities and take their place. Goodbye Paladine and Takhisis. Goodbye Heironeous and Hextor. Goodbye the Lady of Pain. Goodbye Odin and the Norse, goodbye Zeus and Mount Olympus, goodbye all the Pantheons in the official books and d20 books as well. Goodbye Corellon Larethian and Lolth. Goodbye Varak the Destroyer and Grummsh the One-Eyed. Goodbye Yolanda and Moradin. Goodbye Io. Even in Realmspace, despite Lord Ao's influence, chaos would have ensued as all the deities were replaced repeatedly. [/QUOTE]
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