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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Considering new ritual spells
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6899138" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Lets go one by one!</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Arcane Eye: There would be no cost to constantly scrying on everything, entirely removing the relevance of any other scouting method.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Arcane Gate: There would be no cost to constantly teleporting to every location you can see, removing the relevance of walking.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Banishment: This might fare a bit better, but any creature in the campaign that you can watch for 10 minutes can wind up *poofed* to another plane for a minute with no cost? This becomes the most effective way to remove any sentinels or guards.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Clone: This might fare OK, but risks Infinite Clones (or as many as you can afford anyway), if there's no slot cost.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> ConjureSpells (all): INFINITE ALLIES. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Etherealness: There would be no cost to always being ethereal, making this the best scouting method.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Gate: INFINITE PORTALS.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Glyph of Warding: INFINITE TRAPS.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Legend Lore: This might fare OK, but there would be little cost to learning information about the object, making this the best information-gathering method as long as you had the gp.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Leomond's Secret Chest: This might be OK, but you can squirrel away as many chests as you want for free.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Faithful Hound: INFINITE WATCHDOGS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Private Sanctum: INFINITE WARDS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Modify Memory: INFINITE NEW MEMORIES</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Hallucinatory Terrain: INFINITE ILLUSIONS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Sending: Becomes the best way to communicate, because hey free telepathy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Simulacrum: INFINITE SIMULACRA (well, as many as you can afford)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Symbol: INFINITE TRAPS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Teleportation Circle: INFINITE TELEPORTS</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Trap the Soul: See Banishment</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> True Seeing: Become the best scout.</li> </ul><p></p><p>A lot of these fall into big buckets, so let's get a higher level:</p><p></p><p><strong>First: Not being a ritual stops a thing from being "effectively infinite with enough time."</strong> Rituals take time to cast, but other than that, they're free. A GP cost on some spells or expensive material components might practically limit this in some instances, but gold isn't something the game uses as a balancing mechanism, so exactly how powerful this can be would wildly vary with the campaign. A slot is basically the same in more games.</p><p></p><p><strong>Second: Casters Should Not Replace Skill Checks.</strong> Costing a slot is how casters get to - for a moment - be more effective than any skill can be. They can't do it all day every day, and for the higher-level effects, they can only do it 1/day. Without that cost, a caster could just do that spell all the time, and thus anyone who wanted their character to be, I dunno, the Stealthiest Scout, would have their experience ruined because someone with a particular spell would always be a better scout than them. </p><p></p><p><strong>Third: Just because a certain spell is cast over a long period of time or out of a fight doesn't mean that it should be a "ritual" in the 5e meaning of the term.</strong> The casting process for, say, Leomund's Secret Chest, is pretty ritualistic, but it's not a <em>ritual</em> in the game, because you can't do it without spending a spell slot. </p><p></p><p>Hope that helps!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6899138, member: 2067"] Lets go one by one! [LIST] [*] Arcane Eye: There would be no cost to constantly scrying on everything, entirely removing the relevance of any other scouting method. [*] Arcane Gate: There would be no cost to constantly teleporting to every location you can see, removing the relevance of walking. [*] Banishment: This might fare a bit better, but any creature in the campaign that you can watch for 10 minutes can wind up *poofed* to another plane for a minute with no cost? This becomes the most effective way to remove any sentinels or guards. [*] Clone: This might fare OK, but risks Infinite Clones (or as many as you can afford anyway), if there's no slot cost. [*] ConjureSpells (all): INFINITE ALLIES. [*] Etherealness: There would be no cost to always being ethereal, making this the best scouting method. [*] Gate: INFINITE PORTALS. [*] Glyph of Warding: INFINITE TRAPS. [*] Legend Lore: This might fare OK, but there would be little cost to learning information about the object, making this the best information-gathering method as long as you had the gp. [*] Leomond's Secret Chest: This might be OK, but you can squirrel away as many chests as you want for free. [*] Faithful Hound: INFINITE WATCHDOGS [*] Private Sanctum: INFINITE WARDS [*] Modify Memory: INFINITE NEW MEMORIES [*] Hallucinatory Terrain: INFINITE ILLUSIONS [*] Sending: Becomes the best way to communicate, because hey free telepathy. [*] Simulacrum: INFINITE SIMULACRA (well, as many as you can afford) [*] Symbol: INFINITE TRAPS [*] Teleportation Circle: INFINITE TELEPORTS [*] Trap the Soul: See Banishment [*] True Seeing: Become the best scout. [/LIST] A lot of these fall into big buckets, so let's get a higher level: [B]First: Not being a ritual stops a thing from being "effectively infinite with enough time."[/B] Rituals take time to cast, but other than that, they're free. A GP cost on some spells or expensive material components might practically limit this in some instances, but gold isn't something the game uses as a balancing mechanism, so exactly how powerful this can be would wildly vary with the campaign. A slot is basically the same in more games. [B]Second: Casters Should Not Replace Skill Checks.[/B] Costing a slot is how casters get to - for a moment - be more effective than any skill can be. They can't do it all day every day, and for the higher-level effects, they can only do it 1/day. Without that cost, a caster could just do that spell all the time, and thus anyone who wanted their character to be, I dunno, the Stealthiest Scout, would have their experience ruined because someone with a particular spell would always be a better scout than them. [B]Third: Just because a certain spell is cast over a long period of time or out of a fight doesn't mean that it should be a "ritual" in the 5e meaning of the term.[/B] The casting process for, say, Leomund's Secret Chest, is pretty ritualistic, but it's not a [I]ritual[/I] in the game, because you can't do it without spending a spell slot. Hope that helps! [/QUOTE]
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