Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Converting 1st/2nd Edition Modules to 4th Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RomanStoic" data-source="post: 4463515" data-attributes="member: 77063"><p>Hey everyone,</p><p> </p><p>I'm hoping to convert some classic 1st and 2nd Edition D&D modules to 4th Edition. Converting monsters and creating balanced encounters is no trouble at all--the problem is the sheer number of encounters!</p><p> </p><p>Allow me to explain. In the standard rate of advancement, PCs gain a level every 8-10 encounters. That works great in currently-published 4E adventures (all the ones I have seen take the 8-10 encounters into account when designing dungeons from scratch). Of course, in 1st and 2nd Edition, leveling went at a much different pace and encounters were balanced differently.</p><p> </p><p>I would love to run a long 'dungeon crawl', such as the Temple of Elemental Evil or The Tomb of Horrors. The problem is that most previous-edition modules assume there to be an absurd number of encounters.</p><p> </p><p>Consider, for example, Dungeon Level 1 of the Temple of Elemental Evil: there are roughly 53 areas and about 30 encounters in them. In 4th Edition, 30 balanced encounters of appropriate challenge mix (see page 104 of the DM Guide) would equal 3 character levels. Considering that the Temple of Elemental Evil supermodule has two Moathouse levels, about three exterior Temple areas, four Temple dungeon levels, and four nodes of elemental evil, not to mention bazillions of random monster encounters--I estimate that if I were to segment the areas into 8-10 encounter blocks, I would come out with a whopping total of 15-ish character levels. Gah!</p><p> </p><p>But what is the problem with that, you might ask. Well, the recompiled T1-4 supermodule was intended to move onwards into the A series and the wonderful GDQ series, all of which include massive dungeons too. If this rate of advancement were kept up from T1-4, the PCs would reach maxed-out 30th-level quite a ways before they even came close to meeting the drow.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Have you tried to convert an early module into 4E, and if so, how did you manage to deal with the rate of advancement issue? I have come up with only a few ways to deal with this, myself:</p><p> </p><p>1. Slow the rate of advancement as suggested in the DM Guide--perhaps cutting the XP gain in half. That would mean the PCs might gain roughly 8-10 levels in the course of completing T1-4 (possibly a few more). That would be nice...but might also be fairly unexact and would probably still conflict with the addition of the A series and GDQ series.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>2. Just run with it, giving the PCs standard experience for the encounters. Unfortunately, this choice has many negatives--as noted above, the PCs' level by the end of T1-4 would be considerably high and there may not be enough levels 'left over' to run the A series and GDQ series. Another major issue with this choice is balancing the encounters in the dungeon itself. If there are 30 encounters roughly every dungeon level, that means that every 10 of those need to have appropriate, balanced mix.</p><p> </p><p>But the rooms in the dungeon are strewn everywhere on a convoluted map, which means the PCs could very easily stumble into an encounter far above their own level. Deciding which encounters are more challenging than others for the encounter mix's sake would be difficult as well.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>3. Completely alter the PCs' rate of advancement for this adventure. That would entail ignoring XP altogether and simply grant a level at an appropriate point; such as, say, at the end of each completed dungeon level. This choice has the benefit of preventing major balance issues and it permits me to balance the encounters quite simply, as I can then assume that all PCs when on a given dungeon level are of a particular character level and thus adjust the encounter level mix accordingly (whew!).</p><p> </p><p>The main downside of this choice is that it is extremely weird and is not even mentioned as a possibility in the DM Guide (unless one considers the 'simpler experience points' on page 121 as alluding to it in a way), thus making some other DMs to whom I may present my conversion notes shake their heads and say, 'I can't just tell my players they only gain levels at a certain spot!' This choice is definitely not preferable to me for that reason--as I'm a by-the-book DM in many ways. But I wonder if this is the only feasible way to convert these classic dungeon crawls.</p><p> </p><p>What do you think? How would you convert these old dungeons into workable 4E ones, in terms of encounter balance and XP rewards (and possibly treasure awards too, tied into that calculation)?</p><p> </p><p>Thank you in advance for any help or advice you may offer!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RomanStoic, post: 4463515, member: 77063"] Hey everyone, I'm hoping to convert some classic 1st and 2nd Edition D&D modules to 4th Edition. Converting monsters and creating balanced encounters is no trouble at all--the problem is the sheer number of encounters! Allow me to explain. In the standard rate of advancement, PCs gain a level every 8-10 encounters. That works great in currently-published 4E adventures (all the ones I have seen take the 8-10 encounters into account when designing dungeons from scratch). Of course, in 1st and 2nd Edition, leveling went at a much different pace and encounters were balanced differently. I would love to run a long 'dungeon crawl', such as the Temple of Elemental Evil or The Tomb of Horrors. The problem is that most previous-edition modules assume there to be an absurd number of encounters. Consider, for example, Dungeon Level 1 of the Temple of Elemental Evil: there are roughly 53 areas and about 30 encounters in them. In 4th Edition, 30 balanced encounters of appropriate challenge mix (see page 104 of the DM Guide) would equal 3 character levels. Considering that the Temple of Elemental Evil supermodule has two Moathouse levels, about three exterior Temple areas, four Temple dungeon levels, and four nodes of elemental evil, not to mention bazillions of random monster encounters--I estimate that if I were to segment the areas into 8-10 encounter blocks, I would come out with a whopping total of 15-ish character levels. Gah! But what is the problem with that, you might ask. Well, the recompiled T1-4 supermodule was intended to move onwards into the A series and the wonderful GDQ series, all of which include massive dungeons too. If this rate of advancement were kept up from T1-4, the PCs would reach maxed-out 30th-level quite a ways before they even came close to meeting the drow. Have you tried to convert an early module into 4E, and if so, how did you manage to deal with the rate of advancement issue? I have come up with only a few ways to deal with this, myself: 1. Slow the rate of advancement as suggested in the DM Guide--perhaps cutting the XP gain in half. That would mean the PCs might gain roughly 8-10 levels in the course of completing T1-4 (possibly a few more). That would be nice...but might also be fairly unexact and would probably still conflict with the addition of the A series and GDQ series. 2. Just run with it, giving the PCs standard experience for the encounters. Unfortunately, this choice has many negatives--as noted above, the PCs' level by the end of T1-4 would be considerably high and there may not be enough levels 'left over' to run the A series and GDQ series. Another major issue with this choice is balancing the encounters in the dungeon itself. If there are 30 encounters roughly every dungeon level, that means that every 10 of those need to have appropriate, balanced mix. But the rooms in the dungeon are strewn everywhere on a convoluted map, which means the PCs could very easily stumble into an encounter far above their own level. Deciding which encounters are more challenging than others for the encounter mix's sake would be difficult as well. 3. Completely alter the PCs' rate of advancement for this adventure. That would entail ignoring XP altogether and simply grant a level at an appropriate point; such as, say, at the end of each completed dungeon level. This choice has the benefit of preventing major balance issues and it permits me to balance the encounters quite simply, as I can then assume that all PCs when on a given dungeon level are of a particular character level and thus adjust the encounter level mix accordingly (whew!). The main downside of this choice is that it is extremely weird and is not even mentioned as a possibility in the DM Guide (unless one considers the 'simpler experience points' on page 121 as alluding to it in a way), thus making some other DMs to whom I may present my conversion notes shake their heads and say, 'I can't just tell my players they only gain levels at a certain spot!' This choice is definitely not preferable to me for that reason--as I'm a by-the-book DM in many ways. But I wonder if this is the only feasible way to convert these classic dungeon crawls. What do you think? How would you convert these old dungeons into workable 4E ones, in terms of encounter balance and XP rewards (and possibly treasure awards too, tied into that calculation)? Thank you in advance for any help or advice you may offer! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Converting 1st/2nd Edition Modules to 4th Edition
Top