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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5958703" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>Yes, it's an early alpha (which I'll come back to), but in 4e much of the interest and role functionality in each class is baked into its class features (mark, sneak attack, healing word, etc.), not into selectable powers. In general, I think [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] is right that it's already clear that D&DNext won't address the features of 4e that many of us found very attractive.</p><p></p><p>I think a positive note is omitted, though, in as much as DDN <em>might</em> bring something else to D&D that many of us find attractive and fun. That is really why I am following the playtest, now; it's clear that DDN won't have many or most of the key elements I liked in 4e, but will it have something new and fun that I might enjoy?</p><p></p><p>So far, the situation is "I don't know". I see nothing, yet, but it is only early days.</p><p></p><p>Your experiences of 1st level 4e combat were very different from mine. I remember the Wizard using Cloud of Daggers and the Fighter and Paladin pushing, pulling and kiting the remaining monster around, into and through it for extra damage at every opportunity - at the same time as they carefully kept him away from his escape route.</p><p></p><p>NC has already pointed out that real worlds have plenty of clutter, but even without them there is <strong><em>always</em></strong> a reason to push, pull or slide in 4e combat due to the way the teamwork works. The players I run for are constantly trying to put enemies where they want them for a myriad reasons that would exist in a battle on a blank, flat plain:</p><p></p><p>- to get, lose or set up a possibility for flanking (especially for the Rogue),</p><p></p><p>- to push enemies into or through damaging effects set up by the Wizard or the Warlock,</p><p></p><p>- to group monsters such that area effects from the other characters will be more effective,</p><p></p><p>- to move enemies such that their attacks (especially area attacks) will be less effective...</p><p></p><p>...the list goes on. A "useless" forced movement effect would indeed be tedious, if it ever became a factor - but it doesn't.</p><p></p><p>I would say "the mechanics must <em><strong>support</strong></em> the fun". If they don't, what's the point of them?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5958703, member: 27160"] Yes, it's an early alpha (which I'll come back to), but in 4e much of the interest and role functionality in each class is baked into its class features (mark, sneak attack, healing word, etc.), not into selectable powers. In general, I think [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] is right that it's already clear that D&DNext won't address the features of 4e that many of us found very attractive. I think a positive note is omitted, though, in as much as DDN [I]might[/I] bring something else to D&D that many of us find attractive and fun. That is really why I am following the playtest, now; it's clear that DDN won't have many or most of the key elements I liked in 4e, but will it have something new and fun that I might enjoy? So far, the situation is "I don't know". I see nothing, yet, but it is only early days. Your experiences of 1st level 4e combat were very different from mine. I remember the Wizard using Cloud of Daggers and the Fighter and Paladin pushing, pulling and kiting the remaining monster around, into and through it for extra damage at every opportunity - at the same time as they carefully kept him away from his escape route. NC has already pointed out that real worlds have plenty of clutter, but even without them there is [B][I]always[/I][/B] a reason to push, pull or slide in 4e combat due to the way the teamwork works. The players I run for are constantly trying to put enemies where they want them for a myriad reasons that would exist in a battle on a blank, flat plain: - to get, lose or set up a possibility for flanking (especially for the Rogue), - to push enemies into or through damaging effects set up by the Wizard or the Warlock, - to group monsters such that area effects from the other characters will be more effective, - to move enemies such that their attacks (especially area attacks) will be less effective... ...the list goes on. A "useless" forced movement effect would indeed be tedious, if it ever became a factor - but it doesn't. I would say "the mechanics must [I][B]support[/B][/I] the fun". If they don't, what's the point of them? [/QUOTE]
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