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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="DogBackward" data-source="post: 5959025" data-attributes="member: 50642"><p>Next has specifically acted to solve this problem. Want your fighter to be good at social stuff? Great! Take a social background and put a 14 in Charisma. You'll have a +5 Diplomacy off the bat, which is a really great bonus in a system with flat math. Don't have Diplomacy? Try it anyway, since +2 isn't an automatic failure like in most other editions.</p><p></p><p>Do you know how many fights there are in the Caves of Chaos? <em>Far more than six.</em></p><p></p><p>What "unexplained" to-hit? The Fighter has a class feature for +1 attack, +2 damage. That's "explained" right on the character sheet. He's also got a higher Strength.</p><p></p><p>And the Fighter's AC is where it's supposed to be, it's the Cleric whose got an AC one point higher than it should be. And you want to even things out there, all you have to do is give the Fighter a battleaxe and heavy shield, and the Fighter's AC is now 17, just like the Cleric's should be. And he's still doing 1d10+7 damage to the Cleric's 1d10+2. Even with Crusader's Strike, you've got an average of 11 damage, compared to the Fighter's average of 12.5 (not including Slayer). So, even with your spell, you <em>still</em> can't match the Fighter's combat prowess. You can literally reshape reality by the will of your God, a God of War, no less... and the Fighter is <em>still</em> better at fighting than you.</p><p></p><p>Working as intended, I think.</p><p>(I will admit that I'm not a fan of hour-long spell durations in general, so I wouldn't mind that getting cut down.)</p><p></p><p>But the "concept" of the Fighter <em>is</em> "Guy who hits things." If you want to do more, then it's up to you to choose the backgrounds and themes and ability scores that allow you to do so. But complaining that the class whose sole focus is combat is too combat-focused is just silly.</p><p></p><p>What are you trying to say here, exactly? That Hold the Line isn't a good feat? It's an amazing feat; "Oh, hey, you're moving past me to get to the Wizard? No you're not, stop moving."</p><p></p><p>So does dying. or almost dying. Or getting your ass kicked 'cuz you tried to go off on your own.</p><p></p><p>That's not a strawman, that's my entire point.</p><p></p><p>And I'd say that this is a pretty good skeleton they've got here, considering how early a playtest this is. Varying options, including the one that says "Try anything you want, and here are the DC's for it."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DogBackward, post: 5959025, member: 50642"] Next has specifically acted to solve this problem. Want your fighter to be good at social stuff? Great! Take a social background and put a 14 in Charisma. You'll have a +5 Diplomacy off the bat, which is a really great bonus in a system with flat math. Don't have Diplomacy? Try it anyway, since +2 isn't an automatic failure like in most other editions. Do you know how many fights there are in the Caves of Chaos? [i]Far more than six.[/i] What "unexplained" to-hit? The Fighter has a class feature for +1 attack, +2 damage. That's "explained" right on the character sheet. He's also got a higher Strength. And the Fighter's AC is where it's supposed to be, it's the Cleric whose got an AC one point higher than it should be. And you want to even things out there, all you have to do is give the Fighter a battleaxe and heavy shield, and the Fighter's AC is now 17, just like the Cleric's should be. And he's still doing 1d10+7 damage to the Cleric's 1d10+2. Even with Crusader's Strike, you've got an average of 11 damage, compared to the Fighter's average of 12.5 (not including Slayer). So, even with your spell, you [i]still[/i] can't match the Fighter's combat prowess. You can literally reshape reality by the will of your God, a God of War, no less... and the Fighter is [i]still[/i] better at fighting than you. Working as intended, I think. (I will admit that I'm not a fan of hour-long spell durations in general, so I wouldn't mind that getting cut down.) But the "concept" of the Fighter [i]is[/i] "Guy who hits things." If you want to do more, then it's up to you to choose the backgrounds and themes and ability scores that allow you to do so. But complaining that the class whose sole focus is combat is too combat-focused is just silly. What are you trying to say here, exactly? That Hold the Line isn't a good feat? It's an amazing feat; "Oh, hey, you're moving past me to get to the Wizard? No you're not, stop moving." So does dying. or almost dying. Or getting your ass kicked 'cuz you tried to go off on your own. That's not a strawman, that's my entire point. And I'd say that this is a pretty good skeleton they've got here, considering how early a playtest this is. Varying options, including the one that says "Try anything you want, and here are the DC's for it." [/QUOTE]
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