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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="TrippyHippy" data-source="post: 5960242" data-attributes="member: 27252"><p>That is not an objective measure. The sample could be biased. The questions could be biased. The test itself could be skewed to get whatever you want from it, while the poll results themselves are still based on subjective views on what is 'good' or 'bad'.</p><p></p><p>And the 'fact' that many people 'clearly' hate 4E means what exactly? </p><p></p><p>Not true. 4e was targeted at <em>all</em> D&D players in the potential market, and it failed to capture them. The very point that Pathfinder was provided with a market as big as it got is an abject failure from the WotC marketing professionals. </p><p></p><p>By using the term 'D&D' you are capitalising on 'baggage', nostalgic or otherwise. It's called a brand. And if the <em>majority</em> of fans are choosing to recognize the brand by playing other versions of the game, then <em>somebody</em> (marketing or design) is at fault. </p><p></p><p>Moreover, I'm sick of the mantra that 4E was good design in the first place. It was shoddy design for an RPG. It failed to account for 35 years of RPG development, and ultimately reduced the game back to a skirmish game. That isn't good design - it's utter rubbish! The only reason 4E sold at all was the brand name it was associated to.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">4e sold to a lot of people who hadn't played any other RPG before, so this statement is definitely wrong. Additionally, this crosses the border into edition warring, which is, as it is well known, not tolerated.</span> <span style="color: Red">- Lwaxy</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p>And contrary to the idea peddled here, 3E was praised all over the place when it first came out in reviews and wotnot. It was regarded as being a good design that integrated a number of popular developments into the game that werent there before, and was hugely successful in the early 2000s. It accumulated 'bloat' over the span of 8 years of a squillion different supplements (OGL and official) which is hardly surprising, but it's ideas were clearly the driving force behind RPGs in the last decade. Without a doubt, the most influential game of the 2000s. And I say all that as someone who personally never really bought into D20 and the whole OGL shebang.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TrippyHippy, post: 5960242, member: 27252"] That is not an objective measure. The sample could be biased. The questions could be biased. The test itself could be skewed to get whatever you want from it, while the poll results themselves are still based on subjective views on what is 'good' or 'bad'. And the 'fact' that many people 'clearly' hate 4E means what exactly? Not true. 4e was targeted at [I]all[/I] D&D players in the potential market, and it failed to capture them. The very point that Pathfinder was provided with a market as big as it got is an abject failure from the WotC marketing professionals. By using the term 'D&D' you are capitalising on 'baggage', nostalgic or otherwise. It's called a brand. And if the [I]majority[/I] of fans are choosing to recognize the brand by playing other versions of the game, then [I]somebody[/I] (marketing or design) is at fault. Moreover, I'm sick of the mantra that 4E was good design in the first place. It was shoddy design for an RPG. It failed to account for 35 years of RPG development, and ultimately reduced the game back to a skirmish game. That isn't good design - it's utter rubbish! The only reason 4E sold at all was the brand name it was associated to. [COLOR=Red]4e sold to a lot of people who hadn't played any other RPG before, so this statement is definitely wrong. Additionally, this crosses the border into edition warring, which is, as it is well known, not tolerated.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]- Lwaxy[/COLOR] And contrary to the idea peddled here, 3E was praised all over the place when it first came out in reviews and wotnot. It was regarded as being a good design that integrated a number of popular developments into the game that werent there before, and was hugely successful in the early 2000s. It accumulated 'bloat' over the span of 8 years of a squillion different supplements (OGL and official) which is hardly surprising, but it's ideas were clearly the driving force behind RPGs in the last decade. Without a doubt, the most influential game of the 2000s. And I say all that as someone who personally never really bought into D20 and the whole OGL shebang. [/QUOTE]
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