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Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5960296" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>No, that's not what it means: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down" target="_blank">Dumbing down - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a></p><p></p><p>The problem I am calling "dumbing down" is about every character focusing on attacking something and damage/destroy it.</p><p></p><p>I am <em>not</em> saying this is a problem of 4e... I've heard many times people saying that in 4e you can do a lot of other things in combat, such as pushing/pulling opponents around, tripping, slowing/constraining them etc.</p><p></p><p>But I still see a lot of people using "damage output" as the only measure of balance, to the point that even those combat alternative have to measured in how much damage are you giving up to use them.</p><p></p><p>Now, if another game tells you that you are inferior in combat in terms of how % of the monsters' HP you can drop, maybe <em>to your gaming preferences</em> this can lead you to think you have nothing good to do, but <em>to my gaming preferences</em> this means I should activate my thinking helmet and find something more creative to do, so to me it has the opposite effect of "dumbing down" the game.</p><p></p><p>Of course then such "something more creative to do" could be already provided by the rules in explicit form for your non-fighter PC, could be more hidden within the general mechanics, or could even be non covered by the rules and require an adjudication between the player and DM.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not fun for you, but it's always been fun for me and my group, because normally none of us had to sit on their thumbs. But even if we had to, in a game where a combat takes 10-15 minutes, it's not a big deal. There is always some time when a player doesn't know what to do in a RP/interaction scene, or an exploration scene, or even a shopping scene, and that is no problem unless it lasts too long. 4e combats last so long that yes, if a 4e player had nothing to do in combat, he might prefer to quit the table.</p><p></p><p>But you have to understand that not everybody wants to play D&D as an endless stream of combats or one huge combat. Once again, this is a matter of <em>what you're looking for when playing D&D</em>, I'm not saying that if you want combat only it's badwrongfun, I'm saying that <em>to me</em> that kind of game has bored me long ago, and I want my RPG to have a much wider scope, like in fact D&D always had.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5960296, member: 1465"] No, that's not what it means: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down]Dumbing down - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] The problem I am calling "dumbing down" is about every character focusing on attacking something and damage/destroy it. I am [I]not[/I] saying this is a problem of 4e... I've heard many times people saying that in 4e you can do a lot of other things in combat, such as pushing/pulling opponents around, tripping, slowing/constraining them etc. But I still see a lot of people using "damage output" as the only measure of balance, to the point that even those combat alternative have to measured in how much damage are you giving up to use them. Now, if another game tells you that you are inferior in combat in terms of how % of the monsters' HP you can drop, maybe [I]to your gaming preferences[/I] this can lead you to think you have nothing good to do, but [I]to my gaming preferences[/I] this means I should activate my thinking helmet and find something more creative to do, so to me it has the opposite effect of "dumbing down" the game. Of course then such "something more creative to do" could be already provided by the rules in explicit form for your non-fighter PC, could be more hidden within the general mechanics, or could even be non covered by the rules and require an adjudication between the player and DM. It's not fun for you, but it's always been fun for me and my group, because normally none of us had to sit on their thumbs. But even if we had to, in a game where a combat takes 10-15 minutes, it's not a big deal. There is always some time when a player doesn't know what to do in a RP/interaction scene, or an exploration scene, or even a shopping scene, and that is no problem unless it lasts too long. 4e combats last so long that yes, if a 4e player had nothing to do in combat, he might prefer to quit the table. But you have to understand that not everybody wants to play D&D as an endless stream of combats or one huge combat. Once again, this is a matter of [I]what you're looking for when playing D&D[/I], I'm not saying that if you want combat only it's badwrongfun, I'm saying that [I]to me[/I] that kind of game has bored me long ago, and I want my RPG to have a much wider scope, like in fact D&D always had. [/QUOTE]
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